The Adoption - anyone listening?

[Jenijena]

Over the past day I’ve downloaded and listened to all the available episodes of Tge Adoption - I think it’s also being broadcast on WATO? I’m not an expert but it appears very sensitively done and is excellent listening (would be interested in the views of people closer to adopriob). All credit to Lincolnshire County Council, and all the adults involved, for letting the microphones in.

[Thingvellir]

I’m listening. I’ve listened to all episodes during my commute this week (and welled up on the train more than once).

I’m in awe of the social services team and Lucy, the foster mum. Their patience and sensitivity and compassion for these children is really wonderful.

I have mixed feelings about the birth parents, but mainly negative - I know that things must have been very bad for the children for this to happen, and neither parent seems able to face up to their shortcomings. The result is traumatised children but I felt the sadness of the parents as well.

Anyone can buy a ‘worlds best dad’ mug for £5.99 from Clinton’s, doesn’t make it true, and I found the makebelievery of the father hard to stomach.

Thank you R4 and all involved in making the programme, it is a uniquely balanced and truthful insight to the adoption process.

[Jenijena]

This morning’s episode is several weeks into the placement. Interesting thinking of How bonds and attachment grow, and it’s made me reflect on how my experience (2DCs, I’m their birth mum) in forming those attachmentsz

[cornflakegirl]

As Teen said, I just expected them to be using Mummy Julie etc, rather than just Mummy straight off the bat - just to keep the two different Mummy's straight in their heads! But maybe they'd moved through that phase in the two weeks or so where we didn't really hear anything.

I wish there could have been more from the adopters on how everything feels. The stuff in today's about how tiring it is, and how she really wanted to like the kids, and how much it hurts when they say they don't like you - it was good, but I wish there was more of that to come. I know that the kids had only been with them 5 weeks, and there's probably a lot of stuff they haven't even admitted to themselves yet, but I'd really like to know more about the bonding process. It feels like they are skirting over how hard adoption really is. But maybe I just need to remember that these are all real people, and it's their real lives and they don't exist for my education...

[TeenTimesTwo]

I found the first weeks after placement so exhausting.

The children couldn't entertain themselves for more than 2 minutes at a time (literally).
I wasn't used to reading their moods etc so it was hard to tell if they were getting stressed or tired or whatever.
When we went out we had to worry about what snacks, where would we have lunch, where were the toilets, how often should we remind them to use toilet, set going home time before they suddenly dropped. (Later this became second nature).
Meals were stressful as I didn't know whether they would like things as I hadn't given it to them before.
Plus tears at night time from eldest wanting birth Mum.
Plus tears at bedtime from littlest not wanting to part from me (stopped by the time she was half way up the stairs with Dad).

Oh, and the stress of having to show eldest that I did know what I was doing so would keep her and her sister safe!

And in the early days you don't have the unconditional love to help you through. It's a leap of faith that it will work out OK.

(Makes me exhausted just thinking back!)

[captainjacksparrow]

I listened to this not really knowing what to expect.

I work in safeguarding and have removed a lot of children where adoption is the final care plan. I've spent a long time this afternoon thinking about those children having listened to the adoption I'm it's entirety today

I was relieved and grateful that this was not used as a platform to slate social workers and it was refreshing to have an open dialogue about the process.

For me I want to hear more from the workers, particularly frontline, about what the role is like and the challenges faced.

I hope things work out for those involved, great piece of journalism and I hope there is more to come

[TeenTimesTwo]

I think it would be a great series to revisit from time to time. I'm guessing it will continue up to court order at least.

But after then, a catch up on contact. When they start school, 3 years in, 5 years in, teen years. Otherwise it will run the risk of giving the impression that after court everyone just floats off into the sunset, which is a long way from reality.

[LisaSimpsonsbff]

I think they said the next and final podcast (which won't be out until Monday) will catch up on how everyone is doing now - I think they said they'd been following the story for 19 months and handover took place about four months after the story started (with an adoption order) so I guess we're now a year and bit on? So I wonder if we'll get a 'one year after handover' episode.

[QuestaVecchiaCasa]

I didn't catch much of this series so apologies if I have got it wrong but I was surprised that the Social Worker(?) kept on at the children to say which was their bedroom. How do you know its yours... you're a girl so you get the pink one bla bla bla. Is this really acceptable practice in this day and age?

Overall, I thought it was a fascinating insight into the process of adoption..

Perhaps next they could do one about looking for a suitable nursing home for an elderly parent.

[falange]

OP thank you so much for bringing my attention to this. I’m 5 episodes in now and have sobbed so much my eyes are swollen. Heartwarming and heartbreaking at the same time.

[ducktale]

How do you know its yours... you're a girl so you get the pink one bla bla bla. Is this really acceptable practice in this day and age

I think the children have already bought into the whole blue for boys pink for girls thing though, so it’s just their favourite colours. No point making their rooms yellow and green if that’s not their preference.

I’m really enjoying the series and have learned a lot , the latest one also made me well up, it sounds so so hard, it certainly sounded like the adopters maybe felt they couldn’t be quite as honest about how hard it is as they would like. I find my own children irritating sometimes so it must be so hard to try and create that unconditional love for a stranger.

I wish the episodes were longer though.

[falange]

Questa you have got it wrong.* The bedroom is pink because it’s the little girls favourite colour.*

[QuestaVecchiaCasa]

The bedroom is pink because it’s the little girls favourite colour... hmm I wonder why her brother wasn't so desperate for pink.

[TeenTimesTwo]

Questa I'm with you in not liking the stereotyping of colour. However, when moving a 3 year old on for adoption is not the right time/place for anyone to be challenging it.

(As it turned out, my eldest was quite suggestable. So we told the SW the colours we were planning to use, who then told the FC, who then suggested 'ooh I wonder what colour your room will be. Wouldn't it be lovely to have something like X and Y' A couple of weeks later we got some requests back including 'I'd like my room to be X and Y'. Sorted. )

[TuftedLadyGrotto]

The birth mother's upbringing couldn't have been so awful if the grandparents had been able to have custody of two of the children? I know there are other thing stay can happen. I thought I remembered them mentioning other siblings of birth mother having kids?

The maternal grandparents seemed genuinely baffled at how she wasn't able to step up and parent.

I thought in the last episode, although the adoptive mother didn't say a huge amount you could hear some of the challenges in her pauses, and her nervous laughing of "how tired she was". I've used being tired as an excuse many times as a parent, when really it's so much more.

[Jenijena]

The last podcast is out, and the birth mother has had another baby, who isn’t with her. And the grandparents aren’t seeing the children for reasons we don’t know.

It’s been fascinating, but sad.

[TuftedLadyGrotto]

The birth mother! Saying she will jeep having children so she can prove she can look after them so sad after 6 children taken away.

[User5trillion]

Just listened to them all. I couldn't believe the birth parents, they seem in such denial. Such a difficult story for all involved esp the grandparents having to choose but I understand their reasons for picking the older ones. I hope it all works out for the children and adoptive parents. An amazing piece of radio.

[LisaSimpsonsbff]

That final one was both lovely and also very sad for the birth mother. It's hard not to have a visceral negative reaction to her (especially as I'm currently struggling to have one child), but of course she's actually a very tragic figure, not an evil one. I so wish there was something to get her out of the terrible cycle she's in, but it's clear that the professionals weren't hopeful.

It was an absolutely great bit of radio, overall - moving, sensitive and really thought provoking.

[BluePheasant]

I’ve just started listening to the podcasts. Just listened to episode 4 where the grandad explains there are in fact 6 children in total. It’s a story that rings so true.

Part of my work involves working in an antenatal clinic. In the notes we see details of existing children and where they are now and sadly it’s not uncommon to see multiple children, usually all pretty close together in age, and every one of them will be either adopted, in foster care or with grandparents. Often it’s a combination of all three. You know that with this history the baby that the mum is currently carrying will not be going home with the birth parents. It’s so sad to see and often the parents are just as excited and happy as any other expectant parents. They genuinely don’t see what is ahead of them even though they will have been told. Denial maybe. Or just unable to understand that they can’t cope or provide a safe environment.

From the outside, these parents are judged harshly. Why do they keep having babies? Why can’t they just use contraception? It’s never that simple. There’s almost always a tragic story behind it all. And sadly in a lot of cases they will just keep getting pregnant because this time it will be the one they can keep, so convinced are they that everyone else is wrong about them. The birthdates of the children often have frightening regularity and the mothers have many fertile years ahead of them, I’m always left wondering how many more there will be needing homes

[Bubbinsmakesthree]

That was a brilliant bit of documentary making - amazing that they managed to access all the main people involved in the case, and to navigate the need for appropriate levels of confidentiality and anonymity whilst still bringing us in to the detail.

I found the birth parents tragic as well - I cannot possibly imagine the pain of having your children taken away. But equally when faced with that reality, not being able to step up and do what is needed to hold onto them is barely comprehensible. Especially thinking about the birth mother - someone who seemed to have decent parents, without apparent drink or drug problems, who was described as kind and well meaning. It must be utterly devastating for the grandparents to watch your daughter fail in this way and to lose access to your grandchildren as a result.

I would really have liked to have heard more in the last episode about how the children were getting on now, but I can understand why that wasn't provided.

[hiyasminitsme]

Just listened to the last one. I'm a GP in a borough known for its child protection work - this all rings so true, particularly the complete denial from the parents that they have done anything wrong. I'm not surprised that the grandparents couldn't see the little ones, the risk from the older kids of the birth parents trying to see them/find out the school etc would just be too great. fantastic series.

[LapdanceShoeshine]

I caught a bit about this on Feedback this afternoon. Lots of complaints about exploitation etc

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09fxs30#play

[Modestine]

I heard Feedback too. The inescapable fact is that loads of children urgently, urgently need adoptive parents, and this series will help. It's really important.

[Iwantacampervan]

I haven't caught Feedback yet but heard the start in the car - I'll listen today.

[Fruitbat3]

A long overdue response to several question to my earlier post in this thread... @LisaSimpsonsbff @friendlyflicka @IfYouGoDownToTheWoodsToday @MaximilianNero

So much food for thought in this thread and everyone's reactions and comments.

@TeenTimesTwo I was saddened to read your post, I feared as much that the support would not be there.

Several posters asked me what more did I think could be done? I was really moved and reassured by the interview with the judge and extremely moved by the writing from the 50 something adoptee that were on last Thursday's WATO, they put it far better than I ever could:
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09drjmf#play
For me this bought some brilliant balance to an already brilliant series.

The judge mentioned the Pause Programme: www.pause.org.uk/
Certainly something more that could be done for the mother in The Adoption.

An amazing woman talks about Pause on "Fore Thought" last year, from the perspective of the eldest of 9 who watched her younger siblings be variously be taken into care and be adopted: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b080w5q6

Beyond Pause (or maybe its already part of it, there's not much information on their exact approach on their website), then I would say that addressing the trauma and repeating terrible cycles within families can be addressed in the case of trauma with specific trauma addressing therapies: Somatic Experiencing; EMDR; and Trauma Release Exercises are just three examples. And in the case family repetitions Systemic Therapy either as an individual or as a family and family constellations are examples there.

I have to finish by again say thanks to the producers of the series and WATO in general, especially for those additional interviews. We so need to talk about this (as a society) and other issues that have their roots in traumatic experiences. Trauma is endemic and sadly our mental health system is nowhere near (yet) to helping us address our trauma at a community wide level. The Pause Programme looks like a brilliant step forward...