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Property/DIY

Would you buy a house right next to a council house?

266 replies

nappyrat · 04/03/2017 18:00

When I say right next door, it's one half of a semi. The other half is the council house. Most in the (small) avenue seem to have been sold off to private ownership, but the one attached to the one I like, has not (I don't think).

It's £400k FFS!

OP posts:
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Kiroro · 06/03/2017 17:05

@Alfieisnoisy

WTF? How on earth can you imply that I was being derogatory (or even complimentary) about the tenants? I was clearly making a positive comment about the general good good standard of maintenance by the LA. FFS.

They also have solar panels on the roofs (south facing) and I expect the council must get the feed in tariff or something.

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Kiroro · 06/03/2017 17:06

The doors are all the same blue... the blue that I like for front doors. Maybe I'm already catching the council. [Joke]

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frankiesamson · 23/10/2017 16:59

I have a lot of experience living in council areas / ex-council vs private housing, as do my family & friends, so I guess you could say I'm lucky enough to know a lot about this topic.

If you want the short version: in ex-council estate areas it basically depends on your perceived social grade / education as to whether you fit in with the local neighbourhood. If you're perceived to be the same as them, you probably won't have any issues. Notice I say "perceived"; you could be the same as everyone else, but if they decide you're different, wealthy or more educated than them (even if you're not), you could have problems.

Now onto the more detailed version:

All the council & ex-council houses / areas I and my friends & family lived in all around the UK, suffered greatly from class prejudice or general small-mindedness & anti-social behaviour. If you appeared different to what they're used to in any way, there is a higher chance of them taking to dislike & making your life a nightmare, regardless of how friendly you are.

All of us are the most harmless people who shy away from conflict.

From all our personal experiences, people with standard southern accents living in the north of the UK were more susceptible to harassment or bad will, whatever form that happened to take. People who were perceived to be more educated (even if not actually more educated) were targeted by locals. Likewise, if you love gardening people can perceive a nice garden to mean you're more wealthy & you could end up targeted. This included anything from minor intolerance to violence or crime. Note that this was occasionally from neighbours who seemed harmless when moving in.

Things that wouldn't bother most people suddenly became an issue. Something as minor as planting shrubs in your garden could result in backlash from a neighbour because he "can't paint on both sides of the fence". Note that this wasn't simply one bad neighbour, but across the board in many areas.

You also tend to get targeted by criminals more when you stand out. For example, my son was frequently threatened simply because his accent, or clothes were different to what the locals were used to. It at one point was even just because subtle mannerisms they sensed were foreign. We tried being friendly but it back-fired, so did everything we could to keep out of everyone's way but it only got worse & worse.

In contrast, when my elderly parents visited, everyone was nice to them regardless of accent / clothes. It seems age had a big impact on perception.

Even in ex-council estates in the south suffer from this also. We were singled out because they had decided we were too "posh" for them just because we shop at Sainsburys (!) & don't have a cockney accent.

In a private house around the corner from social housing, my son was constantly targeted because he's "white" instead of black.. fortunately it was harmless verbal bullying.. in the end a couple of us were attacked by a random thug (who was white lol!).

Now, we also lived in private housing where the neighbours were relatively wealthy & mostly tradesmen such as plumbers / electricians etc. This is where it gets interesting. We were constantly targeted by the locals because they thought we're more "educated" than them. We had one of the oldest cars, the tiniest 2-bed house in the area & less money than anyone else in the area, but bizarrely we were perceived as "posh" & suffered a lot of harassment in public.

Insults were shouted at us across the road from random people like "posh f", "posh w" . We hoped it would calm down but after 2 years there, we were desperate to leave. My son would get targeted whenever he didn't wear a hoodie!

I should add that we all come from average backgrounds with no money in the family, no inheritance & work full time- my son had to get a huge student loan to go to uni & part-time work in a coffee shop as well! Our accents aren't posh, we speak similarly to Davina Mc Call, Holly Willoughby any other average speaking southerner.

Desperate to escape all this harassment, we eventually moved to a tiny cupboard sized place in west london & haven't had any problems since. Everyone is totally different here, in ethnicity, background..etc. the only consistency is that everyone is friendly & open minded (in doing research online it turns out the area is highly educated!).

We miss our old houses as the size was perfect for us, and to be honest we're struggling in our tiny place now but quality of life has increased SO much because no one gets targeted. The neighbours keep to themselves & don't harass anyone regardless of how different they look. Our foreign friends also don't experience any racism, which was rampant in all the other areas.

From all our personal experiences, the only thing we've managed to tie up to the problems, lower levels of education when you look on street check or zoopla neighbours check. It doesn't seem to be dependent on wealth/race/gender etc.

Strange as this is not what you might expect. You'd think more educated people might pre-judge the less educated, but in reality it seems to be the opposite.

I should add that we have friends from all walks of life & never pre-judge anyone.

So, the demographic in the good areas we've lived are mostly AB & C1. In the bad areas it was mostly C1, C2 & DE.

AB - Higher and intermediate managerial, administrative, or professional positions
C1 - Supervisory, clerical, and junior managerial/administrative/professional positions
C2 - Skilled manual workers
DE - Semi-skilled and unskilled manual workers; those on state benefit/unemployed, & lowest grade workers

If you look on street check or similar websites you can find out the type of employment / education of people in the street.

Before anyone starts calling me arrogant/snobbish, we never judged anyone in these places. We're really friendly people! This is just based on 25 years of experience of around 15 people- myself, family & friends, and we all reached the same conclusion.

Hope this helps to provide some insight.

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WitchesHatRim · 23/10/2017 17:02

ZOMBIE THREAD

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LuluJakey1 · 23/10/2017 17:07

No and not because of the tenants - I grew up in a council house - because the council could no what they liked to it - split it into flats, create a HMO and you'd be stuck. They have turned a house they own in a street in a village near to us into bedsit emergency accomodation for men with addiction problems and it is terrible.

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frankiesamson · 23/10/2017 17:13

PS- I forgot to mention, the problems weren't based on race.. We are white & the problem areas were actually where most of the demographic was white uneducated or below degree level. That doesn't mean to say there aren't nice people in these areas, but it does mean the chance of having a major problem rose dramatically.

In contrast, when we lived in demographics full of other races, we had no problems. Foreigners tend to be such friendly people. Admittedly the education demographic was a lot higher, so perhaps that plays the biggest role?

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Yesyesyesyeswhatever · 23/10/2017 17:25

I live in a council house. I have a handful of university degrees (two MSc) and my parents were as upper middle class as anyone could be. I'm currently unemployed, but got a fair few interviews lined up. Hoping for the best! Having private rented for decades, I appreciate the stability and security of a council home for the sake of my DS. I will, realistically, never afford to buy, so will stay here for as long as DS is in school. There are many kinds of people living in council houses. With many kinds of incomes and backgrounds.

I would buy the house, as council tenants are relatively easy to "oust" if they are antisocial, which not too likely, anyway. Private tenants or owners - not so much.

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frankiesamson · 23/10/2017 18:25

Yesyesyesyeswhatever, you're missing the point. You are an individual & you're unemployed. I was unemployed once, I have nothing against it, nor against people who don't have uni degrees.

You've lived there your whole life, so even though you live in a council estate, you don't stand out. THAT's the point. You've pretty much just confirmed my conclusion above.

It's people who stand out who are more likely to experience a problem in these areas. Nothing is ever guaranteed- it's more about "how likely is it that (x) could happen", and this fact has been clearly tied with demographic statistics in council estates. Even if bill gates comes forward and says he lives a council house, it won't change the statistics because he's just one person.

Does the fact that one person living in a council house with a university degree mean that everyone else in the area is accepting of newcomers? No.

If 95% of people living in an area have university degrees, does that newcomers are more likely to be accepted? Yes. Education has been proven to line up with open-mindedness and acceptance of others (not only in my experiences detailed above but in huge studies).

Does that mean it's impossible for a person with degree level education to be racist? No. It makes it a lot less likely.

Does it mean it's definite that someone without degree level education will be closed-minded? No. It just makes it a lot more likely. Don't take my word for it- this is backed up by numerous studies. Google it.

It may not have any bearing but just out of interest, do you have a Batchellors degree or an associates or some other type? Which subject?

So, the fact that you've lived there your whole life means your message only further re-inforces my point, despite the fact you don't realise it.

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MongerTruffle · 23/10/2017 18:31

I've just read through over 200 posts just to realise that this is a zombie thread.

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Littlepond · 23/10/2017 18:38

yes. I've lived on a council estate, owned property next to council property, and stood up loudly to the awful people in the neighbourhood I now live in who protested the building of social housing on my road.

But I'd wager that you and I aren't likeminded at all, OP, so you probably wouldn't want to live next door to me either, despite the fact I own property and sometimes go to the theatre.

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Littlepond · 23/10/2017 18:39

Ugh! Zombie thread! Sorry!!

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Yesyesyesyeswhatever · 23/10/2017 18:39

Point is in only moved due to split with DH and low income, looking after DS while studying (sorry if that wasn't clear!). My street is lovely and mostly consists of tradesmen, care workers and retail workers. All kind people and they have embraced me.

I've two Bachelor's degrees in different subjects and have ended up changing line of work a few times. I have also longer standing MH issues that have stalled my career somewhat, as did the birth of DS to the point I could not have foreseen. Picking up the pieces now and taking one day at a time. I find that not having a shared background does not prevent me from having good relationships with my neighbours. Differences would only be a problem if they caused antisocial behaviour. Otherwise, not to me. Or most people. Most council tenants are decent and if they repeatedly cause trouble, they will be moved on.

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Yesyesyesyeswhatever · 23/10/2017 18:41

Oh, damnit. Zombieee! Hums Cranberries Why the fuck would anyone resurrect this. Nevermind. I know why Angry

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frankiesamson · 23/10/2017 19:01

You're missing the point; you fit in with the neighbourhood; you don't stand out.

You are merely one person with one experience. Statistics are known to apply to the majority, not the individual. You really need to read my post properly above.

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frankiesamson · 23/10/2017 19:08

Pressed submit too early, and can't edit it!

"I find that not having a shared background does not prevent me from having good relationships... "

It doesn't prevent me either- I'm white, I have no class identity & have relationships with people from all backgrounds, countries & cultures, from Syrians to Russians to Australians, to British. It does however prevent most uneducated white British people from being open to form relationships with people not like them (note I say British, as I've not encountered such closed mindedness in other cultures). Sorry but it's a fact. Studies have shown it & statistics prove it, as do my experiences & those of my friends & family. Google it.

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Yesyesyesyeswhatever · 23/10/2017 19:09

Erm. My point is that I don't "fit", but I still do. Me and my neighbours might differ on backgrounds, tastes and opinions, but are all basically kind and reasonable people. Antisocial people in council houses are still a minority. And that is easier to get rid of antisocial neighbours living in a council property, than a private one (rented or owned).

Also, it's all academic now, as it's a zombie thread.

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Yesyesyesyeswhatever · 23/10/2017 19:21

Unless you plan on being best friends with your neighbours, their opinions will not matter. Racism is awful, but in this part of the country relatively low. Appreciate that it can be a problem in other parts of the country or pockets in areas. If there is only one council house/tenant on the street (as in the op), the op can complain to council about antisocial racism and get the persistent offenders removed. Criminal racism warrants a call to police, of course. Otherwise, simple racist opinions is sad and awful, but unless you are non-white or non-British, or dead set on being best friends with the neighbour, it doesn't really affect you.

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frankiesamson · 24/10/2017 16:05

Sorry but you're still missing the point. re-read my post. Opinions of neighbours do indeed matter if they start harassing you, or if it turns into violence or crime, as it does in so many cases.

"I don't fit, but I still do".. in that case, you fit.

"Kind & reasonable people".. there are plenty of people who are kind & reasonable, UNTIL they come across someone they have prejudice against.

"Criminal racism warrants a call to police, of course." - you've clearly never experienced it otherwise you'd realise by the time you have a chance to call the police, it's over, and often calling the police makes it wore and/or they don't react (assuming you get through since you can't dial 999 for non emergencies). You're only showing your naivety & lack of experience unfortunately- no fault of your own, I was the same 20 years ago.

"the op can complain to council".. council often won't do anything about tenants, and can't do anything about private owners who cause a problem. Hence re-read my point. Check the demographic.

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HamSandWitches · 24/10/2017 16:16

I live in a council house, a row of 5 and 3 are bought. I have had the same neighbours for years but I live facing flats which are blocks of 4 and people are constantly moving in and out of them, some are fine, some are antisocial, some who are not antisocial move when they get antisocial neighbours.

If it's a house and the neighbours are already there then just have a drive about at the weekend late on, they are probably just a normal family with kids who have been there years or maybe someone with older kids who have moved out. The council can get rid of anti social tenants far easier than what they used to be able to due to introductory tenancies. If it's a nice area and a house I doubt you will get a never ending chain of council tenants unlike in the flats facing me

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ShowMeMySilverLining · 24/10/2017 16:22

I can see what you are trying to say in your post. It’s a big thing to buy a house and you’re trying to mitigate problems.

My own experience is that I live next to council tenants now and they are fantastic. Beautiful garden, make an effort to talk to all the neighbours (London!), various people throughout their family have been there 50 years.

My previous neighbours were private renters who seemed to be, shall we say, employed in an undesirable profession from home. They did a midnight flit and didn’t tell the landlord.

I’m moving soon next to other council tenants, I hope they are as nice!

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ShowMeMySilverLining · 24/10/2017 16:24

Agree with JaneEyre as well about easier to deal with problems via council, from experience it seems no one can do anything about private renters...

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HamSandWitches · 24/10/2017 16:28

Zombie thread was started ages ago. Wonder if op moved in

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ShowMeMySilverLining · 24/10/2017 16:28

Also, best way IMHO to mitigate any neighbour problems is to go knock on their door and say you’re looking at the area / house and how to do they find it? Then you can get an impression of what they are like, whoever they are!

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frankiesamson · 24/10/2017 16:37

"unless you are non-white or non-British, or dead set on being best friends with the neighbour, it doesn't really affect you."

You're so wrong. Harassment, prejudice & violence affects everyone, regardless of colour or race. Just because we're white doesn't mean being called names every time we left our front door didn't affect us. -and it was always from white-british, the same as us.

"Antisocial people in council houses are still a minority."

There's minority, and then there's minority. 15% antisocial people in council houses is a minority, but 1% in educated areas is a much smaller minority. We owned various different ex-council houses across the UK over the past 20 years, and we are relieved to have escaped it- knowing what we know now, we would never do it again. We can now live in peace knowing we won't be harassed. I would challenge you to try living in a northern council estate with a southern accent, or try being perceived as "AB" in a white area where the demographic is 90% C2 / DE. You won't enjoy it, I can assure you (assuming you make it out alive). Our son had to actually go to sports direct & buy a load of hoodies to avoid being beaten up or shouted at every day just because he wore shirts. I was threatened while walking along the pavement in broad daylight, by a stranger- just because I was in his way & he wanted to cycle on the footpath. Our attempts to be friendly were met with hostility. Our attempts to avoid contact were met with harassment. This went on for years & years, and was not a one-off experience, nor was it in any one specific area. It was in council estates across the country.

We looked at ex-council flats in West London in a bid to get more space, but after setting foot on the street & the weird angry looks we were receiving from the neighbours, we decided enough is enough. We were very open minded people, perhaps that was the problem- ironically, being less open minded would have saved us a lot of stress.

Just because you're one of the lucky ones who is accepted by a certain demographic, doesn't mean everyone is.. and just because you've not experienced it, doesn't mean the people you know & love, aren't guilty of it toward others. For example, you could live 10 years in a place and be completely unaware that your neighbours are racist against east asians- you wouldn't know because you're not east asian. The same applies to class / demographic prejudice.

The mere fact that they're so class-prejudiced (and I'm sorry, but you can't deny the experience of 20 years & of so many people)- is enough to warrant a huge risk to some people. While 80% who live in these areas might be pleasant, there are many people who would rather alleviate that 20% risk factor all-together, and live somewhere where there is no (or very little) class prejudice, particularly if you speak or look a certain way. Fortunately, the same cannot be said in reverse- the AB / C1 demographic seems to be accepting of everyone, including C3 / DE.

After 20 years living in ex-council houses & flats around the UK & private houses where the demographic was very wealthy less educated (C2 & DE), we now live in an area primarily AB / C1 , where none of our foreign friends have experienced racism in any form, and where none of us have experienced any class-prejudice, and all our friends who fit the C2 / DE demographic don't have problems here either. Life is now the way it should be. Our friends are relieved & everyone in our family feels the weight lifted off their shoulders.

So, just to re-iterate, not everyone will experience a problem in DE / C2 demographics, but many will, particularly if you're perceived as different in a way they don't like.

For a look at demographics, read my first post above.

Regardless of what this yesyeswhatever character believes or it being a "zombie thread", I genuinely hope this helps some people who find this thread via google.

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frankiesamson · 24/10/2017 16:40

"Also, best way IMHO to mitigate any neighbour problems is to go knock on their door and say you’re looking at the area / house and how to do they find it? Then you can get an impression of what they are like, whoever they are!"

This often won't work- we did this in all places before moving in, but it turned out the neighbours weren't honest about the area before hand - of course - why would you openly tell someone about problems, and de-value your own house? No one would do that in their right mind.

We got the impression they were great people, but they gradually changed after we moved in, and the real trouble makers didn't even live in the same street, but walked through constantly.

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