Crap. Fallen in love with an old Scotish castle that is fecked. Am i crazy?

[plumviolet]

Living in Scotland with dh and 2 dds, been here for around 10 years and love it.

I left my job to have the kids and am planning on going back to work in the next few months. Whilst searching for a job online, i got sidetracked and started searching for hotels and b&b's for sale. No experience with that kind of thing, but its always been a bit of a dream of mine and although i know it's majorly hard work and difficult to get right, I feel like it is just the kind of project for me to get my teeth stuck into.

Well....near where we got married (an area we know and absolutely adore) an old Scottish lairds mansion has come on the market at the top of our budget and hour away from my husbands work. It has been a hotel before and it has 12 bedrooms. Its not been one for a few years now though. It was built in the 1800's and has some nice history that comes along with it.

It is in the most gorgeous area, think of the movie Brave and that's basically it. Major tourist area, loch side, cute local village you name it.

Roof is fecked. Lots of damp, turrets and towers to deal with too. Wet rot for sure, possibly worse (no survey yet). Sizable tree growing out of one of the chimneys. Guess that is why it is in our price range. We won't have much money to initially plow in and will have to do a lot of the work ourselves over time. We're both fairly hands on so that's ok, me and dh don't mind getting our hands dirty and would look on it as a long term project and a house for our kids to grow up in. Husband would still have to work, well, until it started to make money. Would run it as a b&b kind of thing and possibly hold weddings there in the future.

Oh, its also grade II listed.

I am totally crazy to even consider this aren't I? 

[Jacaqueen]

Your nearest competition would be in Strathyre. Or the fabulous Monaycle Mhor, which is just up the glen.
It would be lovely but far too much work and money involved for me.

[bloodyouch]

If you're not getting it afterall, can I see the link again? I missed it and would love to have a peek.

That French chateau is amazing! I want it.

[plumviolet]

Me too! :)

[Devora]

MoreBeta, your son has impeccable taste. If you won't move in to that French chateau with him, I will

[DaisyBD]

I've just seen this thread - plum, I'm so glad you're daydreaming rather than planning to buy this house! I work for a friend who owns a nine-bedroom 17th century manor house in a Welsh national park, and it is stunning - views of river, sea and mountains and very little else. But oh my word it's a nightmare. It's grade 2 listed and absolutely every single bit of work it needs has to be done with approval from the local planning department AND the parks planning department, and both organisations are incredibly bureaucratic and contradict each other, and they come out ALL THE TIME and take photos of everything, and leave instructions on what to do and what not to do, and then we hear nothing for six months... Even the simplest little job turns into a right old palaver.

But the bureaucracy is nothing compared with the costs. I would estimate that he's spent roughly £400,000 on it in the last 18 months alone - every time something small needs repair, we find something else that needs doing. A window being painted led to the window being repaired, which turned into the window being replaced, which led to the discovery of two ancient wood beams above it that were completely rotted through, which led to eight months of specialist work to (a) replace the beams and (b) rebuild the wall above it, which was basically a pile of flint with nothing holding it together. In turn, the above led to a discovery of rot in the roof timbers, which then turned into a whole section of roof that needed to be replaced - and of course every slate has to be welsh and hand-cut.

Honestly, it makes my blood run cold to think about it. My friend is very, very laid back, and living on a knife edge financially doesn't bother him (and luckily he has a good income) but I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

I didn't see your link but it was fairly easy to find the house you're looking at. It's gorgeous, and probably needs £2m to get it up to basic liveability levels. Keep it as a wonderful dream!

[Feckbox]

especially the unedited letter to the woman who supported the wind farm application and called his castle ugly !

[Feckbox]

it's great , isn't it?

[plumviolet]

Loving david johnston's blog.....

[GrendelsMum]

We're doing this on a tiny scale. If you've got lots of money, you're fairly relaxed about living in chaos, and have excellent builders who you trust, then it's generally great fun and very rewarding. But I still woke up at 2am this morning worrying about stuff. It's basically your all-consuming hobby, rather than your house. It also helps if you have VERY understanding colleagues and a job where you can start at 10am after daily site meetings.

I think TotallyRandom makes some excellent points.

[expatinscotland]

Think of dealing with the park service. And RUN!

[totallyrandom]

I would only go into it with "eyes wide" open and it would cost a fair bit to do your initial due diligence properly. If you have friends who are surveyors/architects etc/done something similar that would help:

• get best structural survey done and make sure you get a surveyor who really knows about old buildings (talk to him before he goes in to explain what you want done)
  
• surveyors won't comment on certain things like plumbing and electrics, asbestos etc so make sure all the "caveats" are covered by someone else/specialist survey reports on eg wet rot
  
• get a structural engineers report too (I think)
  
• find a friend who is a conservation architect who can give you some free advice
  
• have meetings in person with the senior conservation officer re urgent works and materials. Get a feel for how helpful s/he is and whether you can have a successful working relationship. You need someone who is responsive given need to open hotel quickly and who knows their stuff
  
• get 3 quotes for all urgent works from specialists and get quotes for non-urgent works (necessary in next 5 years)
  
• think very carefully about heating costs if single glazed etc - new wood windows (using authentic good quality softwood) can be very expensive. Even 2nd glazing isn't cheap and hard to clean if it is going to be a hotel
  
• re roof, depending on tiles, you might be able to reuse existing tiles and just need new underlay etc. Good tiles can last centuries but all depends so you could try and get a few tiles off for specialist roofer to check. If there are ornamental tiles which can't be reused then these can be very expensive to remake. And check no bats are there as they are protected. Also get a view on state of roof timbers as can add hugely to the cost (can you tell that I am reroofing at the moment:)
  
• not sure what reclamation yards are like in Scotland, but quite often you can find stuff there to eg. to make-up roof tiles etc
  
• do a financial plan on costs and estimated income for next 5 years (or find a friend you trust who is an accountant/in finance). Don't forget about things like garden maintenance costs/tree surgeons/checking for protected trees. Also as mentioned above, you need to pay close attention to time scales for work and opening of hotel etc and plan works accordingly
  

-in addition to being practical, you will need to be very organised and good at negotiating/managing works in the house and good at getting people to do things for you. I have a friend who has a huge house in SE and she is like this but her house rules her life (luckily she loves "house matters/materials etc - she should have been an architect or stone mason etc really)

[RedBlanket]

On the plus side, Kevin Mc will be all over you like a rash.

Wasnt there someone on GD doing up a castle, possibly in Ireland recently He never finished it because He ran out of cash.

[mistlethrush]

plumviolet - I come to the thread late and the link has gone, however from what was said on the thread, and from having friends that lived in the nearby village, I could locate where you were.

It is a blissfully wonderful part of the world. And I have walked the dog along the shore of the nearby area of water. And I've walked in the hills nearby looking out for special birds.

However, my friends have moved to Gloucestershire from their lovely property, despite having lots of friends in the village. They moved because it took the best part of an hour to get anywhere you could buy things - which was a bit unfortunate if you forgot something that was on your shopping list that really couldn't wait until the next week or two. Or didn't pick up your prescription.

So in addition to having a money pit of a house, you also need to make allowance for additional petrol money. And an upgrade of the car for when the weather is inclement.

[YUNoSaySomethingNice]

....it's fun to dream though.

[Catsmamma]

oh i was being all sensible then and now you have mentioned christmas trees!!


Run, OP, run far and run fast! And do not look back.

[pictish]

You'd end up hating the place. If your dh is an hour's commute away from it, you'd be spending a lot of time alone with it - even more so in Winter. And he's not going to come in after that journey, and get stuck in. He's not superhuman.

The place will disintigrate quicker than you can fix it.

You'd be hemmorhaging cash and up to your eyes in it.

And what about the grounds and gardens? Who's doing those?

I am well up for a bit of property porn and grand designage - but I would never take that on.

[gregssausageroll]

Plum if you do go for this please study the home report very carefully.

[SofaKing]

You could contact the Scottish Castles Association for advice. I got married in Balgonie Castle in Fife, which the laird and his wife and son have restored themselves from a ruin and run as a wedding venue. It is still a work in progress, but they have done it all themselves, so I believe it s possible if you know what you are doing.

I know he is passionate about castle restoration so I think if you contacted him he would be willing to talk to you, and obviously he has lots of useful contacts. Good luck with everything if you do decide to go for it!

[TunipTheVegemal]

Y, those wild pigs have style

[MoreBeta]

Tunip - it was the wild pigs in the garden (second photo along) that does it for me.

[ethelb]

my rented one bed flat in london is worth £350k.

[plumviolet]

Loving the idea of the tv program though... (quick slap to face)

[plumviolet]

Oh wise mumsnetters, this is exactly what i needed.

A strong dose of reality.

I swing from visions of wellie boot walks along the loch, candles, roaring fires, christmas trees and boat houses to complete dread and that cold damp feeling of crawling into a frozen bed at the end of a hard day with no husband and hungry kids....

I'm off to do the lottery.....

[snigger]

We'll come and stay for a weekend, if that helps? Looks lush but the fact that one of the five pics is of the view has me wobbling on your behalf.