Does this sound like the school messed up?

[mynameiscalypso]

I'm sure there will be lots of these posts today! We just found out that DS has a place at his second choice school (which we will accept). We were, however, astonished not to get an offer for his first choice.

His first choice school is a Catholic primary school and DS is Catholic (all forms done by the priest and handed in on time in person). The school is linked to the church he goes to. There are c.40 places a year and for the last few years, there have been c.10 places for Catholic siblings, c.20 places for practicing Catholics in the diocese (the group we fall into) and the other 10 have gone to other Christian denominations.

That's been the latter for many years and we would have comfortably got in. We'd also been told that the school had less applications this year as many EU families had left the area and gone home.

In and of itself, I'm not sure that would be grounds for appeal but a couple of weeks ago, we had a letter from the school offering DS a place for the nursery school attached to it in Sept 2023 (ie not reception). We emailed them to clarify but never got a response as to why we'd been offered this when we'd applied for a Reception place through the system. We had, however, included within our supplement information a letter saying that we were/are considering deferring as DS is an August baby however we'd make the decision one places had been allocated and that we were applying for Reception entry - this is what we were told to do by our local council (and if we decide to defer, DS will stay at his current different nursery).

It seems to me like they've messed up somewhere. Does anyone else agree? I just can't see that they will have had 40 applications that rank above us given we're in one of the highest categories.

[Elsie20]

Ealing's offers

[Oblomov23]

I would email and phone. Probably pop in actually.

[Toddlerteaplease]

@Elsie20

Does this school give priority to other Christian's over Catholics? Eg why are they giving 10 spaces to other Christians. Most Catholic schools I know always prioritise Catholics over any other religion.
it does seem strange

I don't know if it is still the case, but in other to receive funding the school has to take a certain number of non catholic/ other denominations. That's what my parents were told when they applied to a Catholic secondary school for me.

[LolaSmiles]

If there was a bulge year in terms of siblings that could take up more places.

Equally towards the top of most admissions policies are places for children in care, children who have been in care, and children with exceptional medical or special needs requiring a named school.

[Elsie20]

@Toddlerteaplease

I don't know if it is still the case, but in other to receive funding the school has to take a certain number of non catholic/ other denominations. That's what my parents were told when they applied to a Catholic secondary school for me.

Years ago there was talks about this happening and I think it was more for secondary schools rather than primary schools. I remember when mine were at school there was a petition that parents were to sign. I can't remember exactly the details, but this was a time where schools were so oversubscribed by practising RC that even the practising Catholics were not getting in and Westminster diocese set up this petition. Going forward, to when mine were at secondary school, it was still 100% Catholic (this was London though)
the admissions criteria's that I have seen recently still prioritise baptised Roman Catholics first, some state with priest ref first as well and some out of London just baptised first. I suppose it really depends on their admission criteria.

[mynameiscalypso]

@LolaSmiles

If there was a bulge year in terms of siblings that could take up more places.

Equally towards the top of most admissions policies are places for children in care, children who have been in care, and children with exceptional medical or special needs requiring a named school.

Absolutely - children in care or adopted are top of the list (but only if they're Catholic ). Even with those + siblings, I can't believe that there are 40 Catholic children of reception age living less than 200m from the school (which is what we live)

[mynameiscalypso]

Thanks @Elsie20, we're in a different LA but that's really interesting and supports the theory that it's a low birth rate year!

[mynameiscalypso]

@lilao

Is this for Oratory school?

No, not at all. Just a big standard Catholic primary school!

[mynameiscalypso]

*bog

[Elsie20]

@mynameiscalypso

Thanks @Elsie20, we're in a different LA but that's really interesting and supports the theory that it's a low birth rate year!

Keep searching your LA, i was looking at some and they're not updating till tomorrow. Some of these are quite hidden too. From what I'm seeing, i do believe this is a mistake. Not that this will really help you at the moment but definitely will be a reason to appeal x

[IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook]

It does sound from my knowledge of LEA allocation office in our borough that somethings gone wrong. Phones will be on fire today though so good luck.

[mynameiscalypso]

Thanks everyone so much for the advice - we'll be all over it this morning!

[Kittybelle123]

It would be interesting to know which borough; even with a low birth year you may find people looking ahead for Secondary who suddenly "find" or "remember" their faith and their sons end up in Cardinal Vaughan / the Oratory / Gunnersbury.

Then school could have read the letter and offered a nursery place based on that without any correlation to what the LEA have done. It would be interesting to know.

One thing to keep in mind is the transient nature of the London population - there so many shifts that even if your DS has missed out on the Catholic allocation for now a space may become available relatively quickly.

[Radiodread]

I think it's possible there has been a mistake. Did your DH definitel6 submit the supplememtary applicstjon forms??

[mynameiscalypso]

@Kittybelle123

It would be interesting to know which borough; even with a low birth year you may find people looking ahead for Secondary who suddenly "find" or "remember" their faith and their sons end up in Cardinal Vaughan / the Oratory / Gunnersbury.

Then school could have read the letter and offered a nursery place based on that without any correlation to what the LEA have done. It would be interesting to know.

One thing to keep in mind is the transient nature of the London population - there so many shifts that even if your DS has missed out on the Catholic allocation for now a space may become available relatively quickly.

We're in Westminster so I 100% agree about people finding their faith; it would just be slightly at odds with what the priest (who signs all the forms for the supplementary info) told us. The school is generally oversubscribed by non-Catholic children so my concern is that, even with lots of movement, we're still not high enough on the waiting list if they've allocated us wrongly. Hopefully it will mean though that an appeal won't be too much stress for them.

[rivierliedje]

@mynameiscalypso

Absolutely - children in care or adopted are top of the list (but only if they're Catholic ). Even with those + siblings, I can't believe that there are 40 Catholic children of reception age living less than 200m from the school (which is what we live)

The siblings don't need to live closer than you though, if siblings is a higher criteria. Everyone who qualifies for the catholic siblings would get in before you no matter how far away (unless it says in catchment or in a certain distance in the criteria}

[mynameiscalypso]

@Radiodread

I think it's possible there has been a mistake. Did your DH definitel6 submit the supplememtary applicstjon forms??

Ha, that would have been my first thought too but I was the one who submitted them and I took them in by hand and gave them to the admissions officer who checked that we had included everything that we needed to so it's definitely not that.

[mynameiscalypso]

@rivierliedje That's a fair point although the sibling would still need to live in the church's parish (which isn't that big). I do concede it's a slightly bigger area though!

[JussathoB]

@mynameiscalypso

I'm sure there will be lots of these posts today! We just found out that DS has a place at his second choice school (which we will accept). We were, however, astonished not to get an offer for his first choice.

His first choice school is a Catholic primary school and DS is Catholic (all forms done by the priest and handed in on time in person). The school is linked to the church he goes to. There are c.40 places a year and for the last few years, there have been c.10 places for Catholic siblings, c.20 places for practicing Catholics in the diocese (the group we fall into) and the other 10 have gone to other Christian denominations.

That's been the latter for many years and we would have comfortably got in. We'd also been told that the school had less applications this year as many EU families had left the area and gone home.

In and of itself, I'm not sure that would be grounds for appeal but a couple of weeks ago, we had a letter from the school offering DS a place for the nursery school attached to it in Sept 2023 (ie not reception). We emailed them to clarify but never got a response as to why we'd been offered this when we'd applied for a Reception place through the system. We had, however, included within our supplement information a letter saying that we were/are considering deferring as DS is an August baby however we'd make the decision one places had been allocated and that we were applying for Reception entry - this is what we were told to do by our local council (and if we decide to defer, DS will stay at his current different nursery).

It seems to me like they've messed up somewhere. Does anyone else agree? I just can't see that they will have had 40 applications that rank above us given we're in one of the highest categories.

Ask the school?

[prh47bridge]

@BendingSpoons

It does sound like the school have categorised him as the year below based on you saying you might defer. Out of interest, if you do defer, would you keep your place or have to reapply?

They are not allowed to do that. Applications must be prioritised purely on the school's oversubscription criteria.

If OP deferred entry until later in the year, the place would be held open. If OP defers entry for a full year, she will have to reapply.

[prh47bridge]

@mynameiscalypso If they have processed your application incorrectly and you should have got a place that is grounds for appeal. It could be that there are a lot of children with EHCPs, looked after/previously looked after children and siblings this year. It happens sometimes. But, if they admitted any children from the category that your child should be in and the distance for the final child is more than 200m, it suggests a mistake may have been made. If any children from a lower category were admitted, that also suggests a mistake may have been made.

As this is a Catholic school, the big question for me is whether you met the requirements for your child to be considered Catholic. Some require baptism within 6 months of birth and have other requirements beyond simply attending church. Check the school's admission arrangements.

[BendingSpoons]

@prh47bridge

They are not allowed to do that. Applications must be prioritised purely on the school's oversubscription criteria.

If OP deferred entry until later in the year, the place would be held open. If OP defers entry for a full year, she will have to reapply.

I realise they can't go against the oversubscription criteria, but I wondered if it was possible they made an error, based on the nursery place they offered. I wondered if your SIF got wrongly put in the nursery 'pile' so you didn't have one in the Reception 'pile'. I guess this is unlikely as I would hope systems are more robust than that though! I guess you will get answers soon of why they couldn't offer you a place, and it's likely to be an oversubscription issue.

Looks like you will have to reapply if you decide to defer. That's useful to know before you decide on appeals. Although hopefully you can clarify whether or not a mistake has been made, and you may not want to appeal if there has been no mistake.

[mynameiscalypso]

Thanks @prh47bridge, it's useful to know that you think we might have grounds for appeal especially if we can get the school to confirm distance and the categories that they admitted. Hopefully they'll get back to us today on that. In terms of whether DS is Catholic 'enough', we meet the criteria for the school (which is just a form filled in by the priest). I made certain to check that there was nothing else we needed to do because I know some schools are very strict although, anecdotally, a number of the other Catholic primary schools near us have relaxed their criteria as there is such a lack of Catholic children in general.

[gogohmm]

My friend didn't get a c of e school place 200m from his house despite working for the attached church! Religious schools have different criteria

[mynameiscalypso]

An update! The school apparently wrote us a letter - which we never received - asking if we wanted a reception place or a nursery place. When they didn't get a reply, they defaulted to a nursery place and rejected the reception place. But they've said we can have either a Reception place, defer a Reception place or have a nursery place and we're going into the school on Thursday to agree which would be the best for our DS. We don't have to officially appeal apparently, they'll just give us a Reception place if we want it (not sure how that works but just going with it for now...)

So mystery/crisis over.