Is the school creating problems for my DD?

[Sohardtochooseausername]

My DD is 7 and in Y3 at a small all girls independent school, where she has been since nursery. She is in a class of 14.

She is a very good reader, can fluently read books aimed at much older children, but her handwriting is poor as she has flatly refused to write for most of her time at school.

Over the past couple of years she has become increasingly disruptive in class in classes where they have to write anything. She’s fine doing maths and the other subjects she’s comfortable with. The school are now taking her out of class to work with learning support when they are doing writing.

The problem is she loves going to learning support and I feel she is behaving badly on purpose to get to have cosy times there. I feel the school is creating problems longer term here.

There have also been issues with her friends and the school have recommended a psychologist who observed her at school and says she is very bright and popular but emotionally immature for her age. she’s given me tips for talking about feelings but that’s about it.

I’m feeling a bit lost because the problem is getting worse. I feel the school doesn’t really know how to handle her but they are putting the frighteners on me that no other school would do any better and she might not even get into another school because her behaviour is so disruptive.

I’ve been to see some bigger coed primary schools and they seem from the outside very happy places and I am wondering whether I should try to move her.

Has anyone had experience of moving an unhappy child with mild behaviour problems? Or been successful sorting them out? I feel at such a loss.

[Madaboutthem2]

Hello. Kids are smarter than they look sometimes arnt they? My child is only in reception. I'm also being told after two months she's not grasping stuff and she doesn't listen. Her behaviour has improved because I had words but they still say she's needing loads of reminders etc. I find her teacher quite negative tbh. I think she expects them all in the same box.

I just wanted to say I know how you feel. the other kids are getting star of the week, merits and praise. Also going up reading levels already. Two or three mums have been told there child is a dream to have on class. I've been told mine is struggling and doesn't listen. It's a horrible feeling. My child is also oblivious to it. She also struggles if the subject doesn't interest her.

[Sohardtochooseausername]

Madabouthem2 - I’m sorry you are having trouble too - but it’s nice to hear you understand!

After seeing DD’s headmistress last night AGAIN I didn’t sleep well and I just feel like crying this morning.

It sounds like our kids are a particular ‘type’ and they might not have any diagnosable problem, they might just need a different teacher who ‘gets’ them!

My mum (who is a teacher) says my DD is ‘one good teacher away from flourishing’. So maybe she does need a change of scene. But I know it could be a disaster if I move her. First world problems eh!

[MiniEggAddiction]

Your DD sounds like the female version of my eldest DS. Very bright but emotionally and socially young and bad at handwriting. I would second the recommendation of a comprehensive Ed Psych assessment.

I would be hesitant about blaming the school as most schools are ill equipped to deal with things like this and it helps to be proactive as a parent.
In terms of the writing how is she at home - writing letters to Grandma or Christmas cards etc? With my reluctant writer we wrote lots of postcards over the summer (we bought a huge bundle so he could pick one out). To begin with he didn't even write in cursive - just as long as he wrote something down, then as he got more confident I began to suggest he did some cursive letters. Now he writes fully in cursive (not joined up) and it's fairly passable not great writing which is fine by me.

I'd probably be more concerned about the disruptive behaviour as it's probably a symptom of a deeper issue. ASD? Anxiety? Is it something that just happens at school? Could you suggest the school use time in the support room as a reward. For example she stays in the lesson for at least ten minutes and does (whatever would be a manageable task for her e.g. write the Title and underline it) then moves into the support room. If she's feeling anxious it may be that removing herself from the class room is a survival mechanism for her rather than simply bad behaviour.

[TeenPlusTwenties]

While you are looking at other things, have a look at dyspraxia too. They all overlap really.

Is it writing or handwriting that's the problem?

Is she 'better' when just copying something compared with when she has to work out what to say as well? Or conversely, if she dictates what to say is she fine, but struggles to write it?

DD1 couldn't compose and write simultaneously. So for quite a while for homeworks, she dictated to me, I wrote it down. Then she copied it out again, so separating the two issues. DD1 eventually formally diagnosed with dyspraxia aged 15.

[myself2020]

@Sohardtochooseausername i’m dyslexic. my reading is great from the outside, but that’s because i’m a natural speed reader.
I’ve had very similar issues to your daughter at school, and it is indeed dyslexia

[Sirzy]

Given the issues with writing and other things you have said I would be pushing for an OT assessment. They may be able to help pinpoint strategies and things which can help

[myself2020]

Just to add, i can also spell correctly most of the time, but my handwriting is extremely messy. it costs me a lot of effort to spell, plus messy handwriting covers up a lot of mistakes. as a child, the extreme strain of spelling made me act out/get aggressive .

[Theresahairbrushinthefridge]

I would be amazed if there is no reason for the mismatch between her ability and her written out put.

Mismatch is a red flag for a specific learning difficulty. The behaviour could be the result of her frustration.

Moving schools will not fix the problem unless you first know what the problem is.

Step one is to get her properly assessed. Don't change anything until you have ruled somethings in or out.

Step two is to make a
Decision on the best educational establishment for her once you have that information.

[Soontobe60]

I'm a Senco. I did my Senco assignments on dyslexia. I've never known a child who can read and spell well to be dyslexic. The other areas where a child may be weak, e.g. Slow processing speed, does not indicate dyslexia if reading and writing are age appropriate.
Here's a bit of info.
www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/advice/children/is-my-child-dyslexic/signs-of-dyslexia-primary-age
I'd think about possible ADHD, but my main trainnof thought would be dysgraphia especially as she is also left handed. Get her to word process a story, using one she will already be familiar with eg Goldilocks. (I don't mean copy one out, but make up her own version). Observe her as she's typing to see how she tackles it. If she's ok with typing a story then it's more likely to be a mechanical issue. Try a range of pens for left handers, they can make a vast difference.
Here's a good book for practicing handwriting if you're left handed.
www.amazon.co.uk/Left-Hand-Writing-Skills-Fabulous/dp/1869981766?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21
There's also a link to left handed pencils on that page.

[Kokeshi123]

Can you post a picture of her writing so we can see what kind of messiness we are talking about?

An all-girls private school sounds like just the sort of place where you get roomfuls of kids all competing to do the most terrifying neat, beautiful handwriting, and expectations may be very high.

[Kokeshi123]

Slight digression but dyslexia MEANS having issues with reading. If the term is being endlessly broadened to include any situation where anyone has trouble with anything, that is both etymologically absurd and also threatens to make the term genuinely meaningless.

I suspect that the OP's daughter is a regular kid who is just a little bit messy/cocky/doesn't care, and it's looking perhaps worse than it is because she's surrounded by these little hyper-neat overly-conscientious prep school girls. OP, do you feel like the school is trying to "manage her out"?

[Sohardtochooseausername]

Soontobe60 - that’s a good idea. I think she finds it hard to write as fast as she is having ideas, so trying to get her to type it might work.

I’ve done quite a lot of dictation of her homework. She can do quite complex comprehension if I write things for her. She can create poems and stories but it’s like pulling teeth getting her to put them on paper.

Kokeshi123 I’m not sure about ‘managed out’ but I don’t feel she fits their model and therefore they don’t know how to deal with her. How she behaves at school is a lot worse than how she behaves at home.

[ScoutFinchMockingbird]

This sounds like my DD (also in a private prep, Yr 4). She had massive handwriting problems until end of year 3, when she was motivated by the fact everyone else had a pen licence and she didn't. You now cannot tell the difference.
She also has struggled socially, and this has not really improved much. She is never invited for play dates or sleep overs and feels that massively. However, she has (reported by her, so not sure of accuracy here!) just started to be able to make focused, mature conversation with her peers (who have thought she is utterly crazy and a bit of a joke tbh until recently - not sure if this has changed). I am hoping this slight increase in maturity is an indication she will improve here too, but we'll see.
I have considered getting her assessed by an ed psych, but DH is very much against the idea (thinks she will just improve and focus when needed - as evidenced by the handwriting).

[ColdTattyWaitingForSummer]

I agree that a form of dyslexia or dysgraphia might be a possibility. My dyslexic son can read at about an age appropriate level, has good vocabulary and understanding, but struggles hugely with handwriting, and also organising thoughts onto sentences on paper. There are also some issues with processing and working memory. A private ed psych appointment wasn’t cheap, but was money well spent. I’d also query adhd or asd, which both present differently in girls.

[LIZS]

Agree with suggestion of dyspraxia. It can cause all sorts of issues with fine and gross motor skills, coordination, body sense (proprioception) and planning ie. Not knowing where to start on a page. How are her motor skills generally. Has school tried a writing slope, pencil grips, checking her posture making sure she sits well supported, with feet flat on floor.

[Sohardtochooseausername]

Thanks - I think her motor skills are fine - she is in a gymnastics club and doing back flips and balance beam and vault, working through complex routines.

I think it’s more of a mental block based on her lefty ness and the fact that in her class there are many girls who have very nice handwriting. And potentially some of them are making fun of her for it. Potentially there is something else going on neurologically or emotionally, I am going to investigate the psychology option again.

[CripsSandwiches]

I would definitely go for the Ed Psych route. Remember the purpose of the assessment isn't just to make a diagnosis. Often the child wouldn't qualify for a diagnosis but you get an idea of what their strengths and weaknesses are which is a great launching block for making improvements. Sometimes a child has slow processing speed or isolated fine motor issues which can be supported.

[Sohardtochooseausername]

This is her homework from tonight. I get that she is messy but I am sure she is well within typical for a girl of 7 years and 3 months?

[TeenPlusTwenties]

Not an expert. Looks fine to me.

[Fifteenthnamechange]

As an adult with ADHD I think it may be that. Children with it can have issues with motor skills. Boredom & motivation are big issues as well as emotional regulation.
It's under diagnosed generally but more-so in females.

[Waterlemon]

Dyspraxia, dyslexia, dysgraphia are all parts of the same spectrum. I still think it’s worth having her assessed.

Also, could she be hyper mobile?

My DS has always struggled with writing But is a brilliant reader. . Some of hs problems are planning and structuring his thoughts into cohesive and chronological ideas when writing.His speech/language skills were slow to develop and he can struggle to verbalise things when emotional, eg upset, angry, nervous etc, He was assessed as having some dyspraxia traits.

He is also hyper mobile in his finger joints which makes writing very tiring and difficult over long periods.

One strategy that works well for him , is to write just one sentence at a time on a whiteboard. It slows down his stream of thoughts and he can also edit the sentence to add punctuation or add further ideas.

[ColdTattyWaitingForSummer]

At 7, that writing looks fine to me! I mentioned my son above.. he’s 13, and that’s how his handwriting looks, so I really wouldn’t worry too much based on that. (I was advised to let him word process most things, and he’ll get access arrangements for his exams).
Could it just be that the school environment is much more academic focused than the average primary? I just can’t even imagine that being on the radar as an issue in a regular state school.

[Pegase]

@BlueGingerale @Kokeshi123 with the secondary age pupils I work with, many of whom have dyslexia, they certainly do not all have difficulty reading aloud or spelling. Some do. Others have other related difficulties such as producing coherent extended writing, full comprehension of what they are reading, recall of sequences of instructions etc. We are encouraged by our SENCO and outside organisations that have come in to work with us to not just look at the obvious reversing letters etc signs. So many possible traits listed on the Dyslexia Assoc website. Etymology notwithstanding.


www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/advice/children/is-my-child-dyslexic/signs-of-dyslexia-secondary-school-age

[Wallabyone]

I've taught KS2 .for many years, and that handwriting is not bad. It's legible, regular, and fairly consistent. Where is the idea that it's messy coming from?

[Sohardtochooseausername]

Phrase - now I read the page on that website lots of things on that list are very familiar. I’ll ask at school about assessment.