To wonder if I’d be holding my kids back if they went to a primary state school....

[Eesha]

Just needing a bit of reassurance here so bear with me. My kids are very small and I’d always hoped we would get into a decent state school when they reached school age. However I have a relative who has always gone private, her kids are in a very expensive nursery and school. I do feel a sense of envy as she has a lot of family support. Out of noseyness, I checked what was on offer there at the schools and there seemed to be so many activities etc offered, thought at a very high cost. I could probably work and remortgage and pay similar fees but will be a bit of a stretch and more pressure. I’m a single mum who has taken a career break to be with my children, and am lucky I can afford to do this. I guess I worry that by not pushing myself hard, my kids may be at a disadvantage because they wouldn’t then benefit from all these classes etc.

[smerlin]

At the end of the day you can either afford the fees or you can't so no point feeling bad about it! For what it's worth, I have taught in state secondary and independent senior schools and I do think there is a difference, in the areas I have worked in at least, as inner city. The state schools had shocking behaviour standards and bright kids would sometimes end up in classes where they simply couldn't learn at the most disruptive child was in that class too and the teacher spent all their time managing them. Not at all the same in the independent school- you still get plenty of kids pushing boundaries but not to the same extreme and in the same quantities. I should stress I have only ever worked in inner London though so a very small snapshot of what is on offer across the U.K.

The other noticeable difference is in how well-rounded you become. As you can see from this thread, lots of parents, probably most, who send their children to state school take them to lots of fantastic activities as well. Sadly in my case (went to a state grammar) this was not the case. Few activities available at school and parents too busy/poor/exhausted to take me to anything which I feel was a big loss. Some of our parents paying fees are working so hard to make ends meet but at least the school takes care of all possible activities their child could dream of. 99% included in fees, only one to one music tuition is chargeable.

Fees are becoming astronomical due to inflation but actually if anything we see more and more people wanting to send their children private who haven't been through private education themselves and this is a 'first' for their family. A fair number do take fees from house equity I understand.

[SailOnSea]

@Yura I do agree there are small state schools especially as you move more rurally but they tend to have big funding problems. Small numbers in a state school has big repercussions for their budget. I think as more and more funding cuts come toll out the difference between state and private will become more stark.

Private vs State gets a lot of press but really children from an advantaged background benefit from that advantage before birth. Their mothers are less stressed. They eat a better more varied higher quality diet. They can afford help with things like cleaning. They are more educated themselves and nd to use more words with their children etc. If we want to stamp out inequality we need to properly fund state schools yes but we also need to start with help and resources much sooner.

[Yura]

@reluctantbrit The point i was trying to make is that there is a subgroup if children really benefitting from small schools. they do exist in state school sector as well, so its more about the type of school than private/non private ;) in our case its private as we can't really move, others go to a more rural primary school (a friend's child has 20 children in reception, but they luce rurally

[Littletreefrog]

So my kids go to stare primary. Outside of school DS1 is on a football team, cricket team, is a rookie lifeguard, surfs and in the holidays goes to an activity camp where he learns climbing, abseiling, paddle boarding, kayaking, orienteering etc DS2 is on a rugby team, cricket team, has swimming lessons (will join rookie Lifeguards when he is older) and goes to the same holiday camp.
With the school DS1 has been to London, Edinburgh, Wimbledon Centre Court an outward bounds activity week twice as well as the usual museum/farm trips/sports trips etc DS2 will do the same as he gets older.
I'm not sure what more than that a private school could offer about from charging a hell of a lot more for it and making them feel disadvantaged as well are a low income family.

[Summersnake]

I went to poor performaning state schools.my dh went to very good private schools.we met at uni on the same degree course,both got the same degree...I do feel a pang of ..something..as we couldn't afford private for our kids but cousins go private..but money doesn't grown on trees ,so not much we can do .

[sirfredfredgeorge]

hate the fact that parents are judged as failure if they can't afford public school fees

What sort of groups does this happen with? I live in southwest london, know people with kids at Eton, lots of other private schools, whilst some are perhaps surprised that we neither want a private school, or would even consider, let alone tutor for the super selective grammars around, but they don't judge about it, any more than I judge that they (to me) are wasting money on things that to me are an actual negative like 1 adult to 5 kids. They just have different ideas and priorities, none of this is something anyone particularly judges about.

[Notenoughsleepmumof3]

I know private schools don't always have the advantage over state schools. Results prove this, so do Pulitzers, Nobel peace price winners etc. That's a very old fashioned way of looking at things Racecardriver. It depends what you think of as an advantage. It really depends on where you live, what you do for a living, what your education was as a parent of these kids, how much time you spend with them, does the child have a learning or physical disability, does the child have natural ability, were they looked after, is the child curious, honestly... I don't judge those who send their kids private, but nor do I judge those who don't.

[hibbledibble]

A state education won't hold your children back. A state school would usually have lots of clubs, and you can also access out of school extra curricular activities.

Also bear in mind that a private education is no guarantee of success. I know several people who did poorly academically, despite their parents paying for private education throughout their school years. One didn't even get 5 GCSEs (no special needs either, just a lack of ambition and drive)

[reluctantbrit]

Yura - In our area 2-3 form, 30 children is the average and not seen as huge. Huge is 4 form entries.

I agree, it is not for every child but I hate the fact that parents are judged as failure if they can't afford public school fees despite the fact that lots of state schools are brilliant and often equal to private.

[lostinsunshine]

Spend the money on activities with your child.

[Yura]

added: classes are 20 kids maximum, so 1 adult per 5 children in the lower years

[Yura]

it depends on the schools and your child. Around here, all primary schools are huge (2-3 form entry, 30 kids per class, 1 teacher and a parttime ta). my noise sensitive and easily distracted oldest would have suffered badly and switched off completely, but does very well in his small private school (170 kids including nursery, 2 teachers and 2 TAs fulltime). his younger brother would be fine in the noisy and slightly chaotic state schools around here.

[Threewheeler1]

Well said Beba11

[Beba11]

After reading a lot of comments in this post, and I know this is probably unintentional, this ties in with the whole mum shaming culture that is happening at the moment and guilt/blame. To ask 'am I holding my child back if I send my child to state school' sends the message to mums like myself that in no way can afford it, that we are holding our children back because we can't pay. There is so much pressure and snobbery around what school we send our children too. People see themselves as tolerant and non judgmental but then completely change their outlook when choosing the environment for their child's school. Everyone wants the best for their child and I am guilty of this too, but this is why society is so divided.

[BakedBeans47]

Why on earth would you remortgage to pay school fees? Sounds like madness. There are plenty of decent state schools out there, I’d just send them to one of those and be done with it. As indeed me and most of the population do without “holding them back”

[Racecardriver]

Private schools do provide major advantages. But the vast majority of children go to state schools instead. Will your children be disadvantaged? Yes, but no more than the average person. You have to ask what kind of life you want for your children and go from there. If you can't afford to go private that doesn't mean that you can't afford to give them most of the advantages that private schools offer anyway. Private tutoring in subjects not offered at state schools, tennis lessons, music lessons, elocution lessons, ski trips etc can all be bought and probably for less than it would cost to go private. Many private schools do accept 30 hours free childcare for the first year which makes them much more affordable. And you can always asks for a bursary after a few years of you feel like the cost is toohigh.

[CharltonLido73]

I'm wondering where this skewed world is where everyone sends their children to private school, and I feel sorry for those posters on this thread who have felt the need to compete socially with their elitist social circle in this respect.

Nobody in my social circle has sent their children to private school; all our kids went to the local primary, and then secondary school. Maybe we are lucky that we have decent state schools in our area.

Both my daughters did very well and achieved their potential. The younger one (a 1st in her Physics BSc and then a distinction in her MSc in nuclear physics) actually gained a £10,000 bursary from her Russell Group university to fund her through her MSc (on top of the actual masters fees which were also funded by the university).

One of the criteria for qualifying for the £10,000 bursary was having attended a state secondary school for A Levels!

I am grateful for my children's state school education and very pleased with the outcomes achieved.

[TJsAunt]

So - I am you but 10-12 years on!

When we bought our house we were near a good primary school and assumed that's where our dc would go eventually.

Then we got caught up in the whole independent school thing. All our friends were doing it for their kids. Suddenly the primary school didn't look so shiny. So dc both went to a prep school.

I can't deny the facilities were better. A sports field, specialist teachers, science labs, smaller classes, lots of music and extracurricular stuff.

But as time went on, we saw that really the value add was very limited. They picked bright kids and the teaching methods were very archaic and repetitive. And while one dc was sporty and into everything, the other was not so it was all wasted on them.

Both kids enjoyed their primary years - but I think they would have both enjoyed the local primary just as much. And we would have saved a small fortune. So don't be swayed by what other people are doing - if you're lucky enough to have a decent state option then seize it with both hands.

FWIW they do now both go to independent secondaries and (so far!) I think we made the right choice for this stage.

[Idgie]

We have had kids in state and private primary/prep. The biggest advantage at that age is the pastoral side. The prep could focus buckets more time on the emotional/social side of development than state could simply because of numbers. The prep had half the number of kids in it. In the run up to the KS1 SATS the outstanding academic primary was really pushing the kids and I don't think it was in their best interest. The prep was moving them along at a pace that suited the child. The day at prep is a bit longer. They had lots more time playing outside and breaks because they could get through more faster when doing academics. In short I think prep is kinder and gentler and offers a better quality of life (with the big assumption that it's a good one!) for young children. I don't think there's much in it academically. The academic differentiation comes at secondary.

[Xenia]

Murane, there is certanly a lot of luck out there. In some jobs speaking like those who hire you, having similar hobbies and getting on with them because you went to similar schools might give you an edge if you have identical brilliant resuits to someone else without those things however. It is not for nothing lawyers for example every year now have to report their percentage employees who went to private schools.

[minipie]

I would agree with save your money (and keep your hand in career wise) for secondary.

[Murane]

If you can afford private school plus everything else then absolutely choose a private school. But if it's a choice between private school and foreign travel, hobbies, buying them a house... they will benefit much more from the latter.

Also, success in life is largely based on opportunities. I have treble the qualifications that DH has but was unfortunate in not securing a trainee post in my extremely competitive field. Whereas DH hit the jackpot and walked into a well paid trainee post with excellent progression opportunities. So he is wealthy with a good career while I've struggled in low paid insecure jobs. If you've ever been involved in hiring you know that people aren't chosen based on being the best educated. Often it comes down to the interviewer liking someone and wanting to work with them. Success has little to do with your education and everything to do with luck and personality. Private schooling is irrelevant in long term success.

The final factor is the child's happiness. I went to a state school with a lot of disadvantaged kids and witnessed terrible abuse and violence on a regular basis. As a well behaved child who worked hard I was bullied mercilessly and had no friends. A private school with more appropriate peers would have made a huge difference to my happiness, even if not to my career success.

[cloudtree]

Ours rarely go on the extra trips either but we travel a lot as a family and they'd rather see these places with us. However we are in the minority.

The environment at the vast majority of independent schools is a closeted one where the majority of the children are from relatively wealthy backgrounds with access to most things they want and everything they need and is not reflective of the real world even though to those children it is completely normal. At my DC's school most of the families have two professional working parents (lots of doctors/lawyers etc) and so we're not talking extreme wealth here, but very good joint incomes nonetheless.

[Xenia]

It depends on the school too. I didn't get the impression at my sons' (private day) school that lots of the children had everything they wanted and never felt any pressure nor did the children to go on trips. In fact I wanted them to go but mostly they refused as they'd rather stay at home! Those parents who have a choice just need to take their own decision and it will probably work out for the best anyway.

[cloudtree]

Mine are at a selective private school. DH and I both went to state comps.

Benefits:
-Class sizes
-Because it's academically selective the children are all performing at a certain level and therefore they have the time and ability to stretch them. Extension provision for academically gifted is good. SEN provision is also good (but the range of SEN students is limited so various children with things like dyslexia etc but very few with behavioural needs like ADHD). Lots of independent schools charge extra for SEN support though.
-Very wide range of extra curricular stuff with very high take up of sport and music to a high level - most children play a musical instrument all through school

• Very good facilities
  
• excellent exam results as a group
  

Disadvantages:

• extremely competitive with little let up. We are currently in exam week and the pressure is intense.
  
• masses of homework around 2-3 hours per night plus compulsory sport all day on a Saturday (which really messes with weekend plans)
  
• enormous cost
  
• lots of children who have always had everything they wanted which is not a particularly healthy culture and is certainly not reflective of what they will find in the real world.
  

It has been right for one of our children. Time will tell about the second who has a learning disability and may well find the pace too hard at senior level. However just a fraction of the money we have spent could have paid for masses of extra curricular stuff including extra tutoring if necessary and so its only "worth it" IMO if you have the money readily available and it is not needed for other things. There are two of us and we are both on six figure salaries.

Remember the fees go up every year (generally by at least 6-7 percent plus a big jump at senior level) and there is a lot of pressure to do expensive trips.

I woud stick to the state sector in your situation without even thinking twice and with not a pang of guilt.