Why do primary school children have sit in group tables?

[user1495443009]

What's the porpuse of sitting kids in primary schools on group tables where not everyone face the board ? Also why do they need to have working partners? And why is always a boy and a girl? Normally sitting a good child with a naughty one.

Please teachers provide some enlightenment of the reasons for doing this. I am sick that my daughter always has to sit next to one of the naughty boys who doesn't listen and fiddles all the time.

Is this the same in all the primary schools?

[knobblykneesandturnedouttoes]

Glad it wasn't just me who picked up on the taxes thing.

[Rufustherenegadereindeer1]

At our junior school ds1 was always put with the naughty children girls or boys

It didn't cause him any issues

But it would have done with at least one of my other children so i would definitely bring it up with the teacher

[ZooeyAndFranny]

I sympathize with you OP but your remark about taxes is just plain odd. Most people pay taxes, that's how our country functions. It is hardly exceptional.

[user1495443009]

Thank you. I know it must be tricky for the teachers; every time I have been in a school trip or volunteered for a school event I appreciate how much the teachers have to deal with. I don't mind she sits next to this boy sometimes but somehow she always ends with him; last year she sat nearly 2 full terms next to him and she says he fiddles, makes noises, doesn't listen and interrupts often. I have emailed the teacher as there is no parents evening until March next year.

I didn't grow up in this system so wanted to know the reasons for it as it seems to me it causes more problems than help but I am not a teacher and perhaps teachers find it useful.

[user789653241]

knobbly, what are you suggesting? That my ds was lying?
It was very tiny classroom, I don't think there was any space for all the children to turn their chairs around anyway, tbh. They were using every available room during renovation.
Now they are using that room for storage.

[treaclesoda]

This is how we sat at primary school and how my kids sit now.

That's interesting about it being linked to lower learning outcomes because I had (naturally, I think) assumed that they were seated in groups because it was considered best practice.

[BarbarianMum]

Ds2 is always sat next to the chattiest girl and he's "a good listener" and very good at staying on task.

[user1495443009]

The remark about taxes/ free education was because I feel teachers already have to put with a lot in the state systems and I sometimes feel I shouldn't be complaining as she is getting a free education after all and I do appreciate how many things they have to do on top of parents complaining for every little thing like me when they are trying to do what they think is best.

[Natsku]

It's unusual in many countries and looks extremely odd to many people from overseas

Yeah, I'm in Finland now and at DD's school they sit in paired rows facing the board. I remember in primary school we'd chat and mess about so much at the group tables, definitely can see how it wouldn't be so conducive to learning.

[CatastropheKate]

The tax is irrelevant though and makes you sound silly and entitled - should my child get a better education than yours because I pay more tax than you?

[CloudNinetyNine]

DD's teacher is constantly changing the seating plan as there are so many kids who can't seem to work together.
DD asked to be on a table by herself as she was being annoyed/distracted by others. It lasted 2 days then she was back in a group.
I think a lot of the time the classrooms are too small (or too many children) to have a more spaced out seating arrangement.

[Uptheduffy]

It's really not a problem to ask for your dd to be moved. You can't ask to change the whole seating arrangement but your dd should not be seated next to the same child all the time if she doesn't want to.

[user1495443009]

Natsku; that's how it was in my primary school we sat in rows of two; this wasn't in the UK though. but as some people say, perhaps there are too many children and not space in the classroom.

At secondary school we have single rows of individual desks.

[user1495443009]

Kokeshi123. I totally agree with you. I feel this arrangement doesn't work but wanted to hear if there was a reason for doing this.

[MissWilmottsGhost]

Meh, DD is the bright and well behaved one and is often paired with one of the more..erm...challenging children, often a particular boy. I don't have a problem with it TBH, I don't think it really slows down her learning (so far) and it definitely improves his.

I pay taxes too

[Natsku]

Definitely ask for your DD to be moved to a different seat in any case. My DD is sat next to a boy that's really noisy and has been teasing her so she's struggling to hear the teacher and is getting annoyed by him so I've told her to ask to move and if that doesn't work I'm going to ask the teacher myself.

Classrooms in the UK do seem to be overcrowded though so I suppose they need to seat them in whatever way fits them in best.

[user1495443009]

DD is in year 6 by the way. Children don't get better by sitting next to a bright one or behave better by being next to a quiet child and they do get more distracted by sitting in tables and facing other children instead of facing the board. I think the layout of the classroom will allow for having 3 rows facing the board. I appreciate it doesn't happen in all primary schools but I have seem about 7 primaries in London on open days and they all have the same arrangement so I thought there was a particular reason for doing that.

[BarbarianMum]

Nah, no particular reason, they just do it for shit and giggles. And to make the class more disruptive, cause that's fun. And to hold the bright kids back because teachers love to do that.

[user789653241]

I find the carpet time strange too. It happens even in KS2 at my ds's school, at the beginning of the lesson, assume it's for whole class teaching.
Rows of tables and chair facing teacher makes more sense, since "real" group work is very rare, and it's quite easy to change setting when needed.

[brilliotic]

Nah, no particular reason, they just do it for shit and giggles. And to make the class more disruptive, cause that's fun. And to hold the bright kids back because teachers love to do that.

Honestly I believe that whilst some teachers will have given their classroom layout a lot of thought, and will adapt it according to each new class they teach, many just go along with what they perceive as being the 'done thing'. Not for 'shits and giggles' or for any mean reasons. But perhaps because the previous teacher had the group tables, the other teachers in the school do it, SLT expects it, and they do not have time (amidst all the other stuff they are meant to be doing) to a) think through what would really work best with this particular class, and b) argue a case that would allow their SLT to agree to changes as to how things are done in this school.

[ProseccoMamam]

It helps them socially, which is pretty understandable considering a 5 year old doesn’t really know how to share or hold a conversation properly. It’s just teaching social norms and respect/kindness to others e.g waiting for someone to finish talking before they speak and actually listening to the other person and taking time to think of a structured response

[kesstrel]

assumed that they were seated in groups because it was considered best practice.

Unfortunately, a lot of things are done in schools because they are supposedly 'best practice', but often the evidence for this is very flimsy. Whole Language and the former National Literacy Strategy are good examples of this. This is not the fault of the teachers, but of education academics and advisers who come up with ideas and theories based more on their educational 'philosophy' than on any evidence that they work. The fact that other countries - including Finland - don't do this seems to be ignored.

As for how common this is - if you google 'primary classroom' for images in the UK, you will see picture after picture of grouped tables. In contrast, if you do the same for Finland, you will see rows.

Also, the idea that all primary teachers are free to arrange their classrooms as they wish doesn't fit with what I have seen a number of teachers say on Twitter and blogs/blog comments. Some schools force the teachers to stick to tables, either because they think that's what Ofsted wants, or because they are unaware of the evidence against it.

Another big disadvantage of tables is that it facilitates bullying for older children, because the teacher cannot see everyone's faces and as children get bigger they can end up rather crowded at the table.

[Natsku]

Another big disadvantage of tables is that it facilitates bullying for older children

In year 6 I was sat next to my bully, he'd punch me and throw my book across the room but the teacher didn't see it happening so wasn't sure what was really going on.

[Eolian]

To a certain extent, the table arrangement is merely a fashion in education. Secondary schools were very keen on arranging the tables in a horseshoe shape for a while. I teach secondary and a tiny bit of primary and would much rather have the kids in rows. It is much more conducive to good behaviour and concentration, but unfortunately viewed as old-faahioned (though I've seen a few recent articles where some fairly forward-thinking people have been clamouring for a return to it).

Schools are keen to adopt the latest thinking, and justify it with all kinds of research data... right up until the next fad comes along and it's suddenly all forgotten in favour if the new thing.

[soapboxqueen]

I've generally always used grouped tables because I've always done a hell of a lot of group work. Resources can't always be stretched across rows without causing management issues. Sometimes a room has been too small or there were not enough tables available. Sometimes the furniture was bought for group work and isn't easily used for rows. The older the children are, the more useful rows can be though I'd still use groups in year 6.

I have once made all children sit boy/girl and that was a group of year 8s and it was about splitting up friendship groups. Add there was a behaviour issue.

If your child isn't happy then speak to the teacher.