Resit Y6 tests in Y7

[Book1234]

Just wondering how many parents of children in Y6 are aware that they will be resitting the tests in Y7 if they fail them?

We still don't the fail / pass mark yet, but I'm not sure how widely the government has shared this information with schools.

Any thoughts?

[noblegiraffe]

Oh the problem definitely exists, and the usual solution of putting those students in small groups that go slower than the other groups in order to catch up with them doesn't make sense either.

But this sledgehammer, although it might just catch the edge of that nut as it falls, just causes too many other issues to be taken even remotely seriously as a solution.

Of course there are other things going on at the same time which will just compound the issue such as compulsory EBacc for current Y7 onwards, so the students with literacy problems who would usually be taken out of languages to work on their English will now not have that time and be forced to study French too.

Fixing literacy issues is clearly not a priority for this government, at least not in a joined-up thinking sort of way.

[Bolograph]

That doesn't mean 11% are illiterate ...far from it.

So what number would you put on illiteracy in secondary schools to the point that accessing the secondary curriculum is compromised? And would secondary teachers agree?

[mrz]

I suppose it depends on what you actually mean when you say "illiterate" Bolograph but those children who achieve a L3 (so below expectations) can read and write and calculate. They can read newspapers, fill in forms and access the curriculum.

[Bolograph]

Excellent! Adult illiteracy is solved, and within a few years the prisons won't be full of people who can't read and write!

[mrz]

And people will be much better informed when they make comments.

[Bolograph]

So don't be coy, mrz: what is the current level of unable-to-access-the-curriculum illiteracy in secondary school? You've told us i isn't 11%, and that people who get L3 are also fine, so presumably you're arguing you have to get down to L2 before you have a problem, yes?

[SaltyMyDear]

Most L3 children can't read and write well enough to access the secondary curriculum.

Most secondary classes would certainly have pupils who can barely read and write. 10% - 3 per class - sounds about right.

Equally most Y6 classes would have children who can't read or write. I don't know why primary teachers insist that these children can read and somehow it's just that the test is too hard. But they've been saying that for years.

I guess it's because 'being able to read' and 'literate' aren't well defined terms.

If you got a L3 in last years SAT paper you couldn't read well enough for secondary.

[mrz]

Bolograph I'm quoting the DfE data what's your source?

Interesting, Salty because I'm being told by secondary colleagues that children with L3 have no difficulty with accessing the curriculum and going on to achieve good GCSE results.

[Bolograph]

Bolograph I'm quoting the DfE data

What DfE data? We know what the proportions getting the various levels are, the question is what the implications for that are.

children with L3 have no difficulty with accessing the curriculum and going on to achieve good GCSE results.

I can't recall the current numbers, but in 2013 76% of children got L4 in SATs.

5 A*-C including Maths and English, which is what most people would class as "good GCSE results" is at around 55% for the past ten years.

Which would imply, at first reading, that a hell of a lot of people with L4 SATs don't get "good GCSE results".

So, again at first reading, that says that L3 is a significant handicap. What proportion of children with L3 SATs get 5 A*-C?

[noblegiraffe]

KS4 5 A-C EM TMs KS4 5 A-C EM All Pupils All Schools 3c 97% 3%
KS4 5 A-C EM TMs KS4 5 A-C EM All Pupils All Schools 3b 94% 6%
KS4 5 A-C EM TMs KS4 5 A-C EM All Pupils All Schools 3a 87% 13%
KS4 5 A-C EM TMs KS4 5 A-C EM All Pupils All Schools 4c 75% 25%
KS4 5 A-C EM TMs KS4 5 A-C EM All Pupils All Schools 4b 51% 49%
KS4 5 A-C EM TMs KS4 5 A-C EM All Pupils All Schools 4a 27% 73%
KS4 5 A-C EM TMs KS4 5 A-C EM All Pupils All Schools 5c 14% 86%
KS4 5 A-C EM TMs KS4 5 A-C EM All Pupils All Schools 5b 4% 96%
KS4 5 A-C EM TMs KS4 5 A-C EM All Pupils All Schools 5a 1% 99%

[noblegiraffe]

Apologies for the formatting, the above data is 2015. The first % is not achieving 5A* to C including English and maths, the second percentage is achieving.
So level 3c, 97% did not achieve 5 good GCSEs inc English and maths, 87% of those on a 3a did not achieve 5 good GCSEs.

[Bolograph]

Interesting that there is a huge step from 4b to 4a.

It does rather depth charge the claim that 3 leads to good GCSEs.

[kesstrel]

Mrz - do you have a reference for that readability age of 22? Because the D of E claims that the Flesch-Kincaid readability scores are within an appropriate level for the primary age group:

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/reading_texts_for_key_stage_2_sa

Mind you, I know that "readability scores" can vary widely, depending on what measure you use. However, I think 22 is pushing it quite a bit!

[mrz]

Are we converting a level 3 reading into GCSE geography or MFL or PE or like for like?

[Bolograph]

What does a reading age of 22 even mean? That pgce students have superior reading skills to final year undergraduates?

[mrz]

Sorry Kesstrel I just have a screenshot if the info

[mrz]

readability scale NOT reading age

[Bolograph]

What reading scale? F-k ease would make 22 post graduate. F-k difficulty would imply about five years' post graduate. 22 on which scale?

[mrz]

If you look at the screen shot you will see the author says Flesch-Kincaid

[kesstrel]

Well, I just tried the first paragraph of the Lost Queen on 3 different on-line "test your text" facilities, and their estimates via Flesch-Kincaid were all different! From Grades 4.5, to Grade 6, to Grade 8! They also show a number of other measuring schemes, and they are all very different too. So I don't think we can set a lot of store by people testing the text online.

[Bolograph]

I can now see the screen shot (on my phone I couldn't).

Flesch Kincaid reading ease works solely on the length of sentences and the number of syllables in the words. You're welcome to regard that as a reliable way to measure the difficulty of text.

[derxa]

noble That's an interesting set of stats. Is that for the KS2 Reading Test?
You need 4a to have a decent chance of getting 5 good GCSEs.
What's the solution? Inference training?

[SaltyMyDear]

NobleGiraffe - thanks for the data. It does suggest that pupils who get a level 3 in Y6 are very unlikely to pass maths and English GCSEs. In fact you need to get a 4a before it becomes likely that you'll pass maths and English.

[mrz]

No it suggests that a child is less likely to achieve FIVE high level GCSEs

[SaltyMyDear]

Derxa - most children don't get a level 3 or 4 because they can't infer, but more simply because they can't read. They can't read well enough to understand what they've read.

They might (or might not) be able to read individual words. But they can't understand a whole passage when they read it.