Part time start- school wont even discuss it

[EnglishRose1320]

I posted once or twice before about my concerns over DS2 starting school in September (probably just a fussy mum!)

He isn't the youngest of the year, he will be the oldest of the summer term children so still quite young, nowadays with all children starting in September I was hoping that the school would allow him to do a staggered start and build up to full time. Currently he still sleeps most days for anything from half an hour to 3 hours and I just can't see him managing a whole week without getting really run down.

I mentioned my concerns to the head of the foundation unit and he e-mailed the head teacher- the response I got was that they will not discuss it unless there is medical evidence. I feel quite disappointed that they wont even have a conversation about it.

Any advice r.e what I can do next?

I know I could defer him by a term or two, however ideally I want him to start with his peers.

Having worked in several schools within this council I am very surprised by the attitude of this school and wasn't expecting this response at all.

[Fuzzymum1]

My middle son was still napping at least two hours a day when he started school - once they'd done the settling in part time he started going to bed at 5.30pm and waking at 8am before going to school. He did little other than school and sleep until about easter when he started getting used to managing without a nap. He wasn't one of the youngest either - he has a december birthday.

DS3 was much easier - he stopped napping before he was 3.

[petalunicorn]

I should have been clearer - school didn't have a proper nap area, she just bedded down wherever she felt like it (!). Like others have said, there wasn't a choice, when she needed to sleep she was going to go to sleep. I didn't discuss it in advance with the school, I just let them get on with it.

On days she didn't nap she needed a 5 pm bedtime otherwise she would just get overtired and tantrum. Over the course of year R she napped less frequently at school and bedtime slowly crept back at home.

When she got to year one they told her she was 'allowed' to have a sleep but if they saw her getting ready to drop off then they told her what was going to happen next and suggested she didn't want to miss it and she didn't ever actually nap in year one. I think this was a good approach.

[smellyfishead]

AFAIK they cannot object, your child does not legally have to be in school till the term after they turn five.

I am holding my dd back, 4.1 in sept, for this exact same reason, she still has 1-3hr naps in the middle of the day too and we have the same problem if she doesn't nap in the day, I can see exactly what will happen if she started sept, she would go to school, have no nap, fall asleep at home/on way home, then be grumpy and tired on awakening and not want/refuse dinner.

I haven't applied for a school place yet as I don't intend her to start till next april(ish) but the LEA weren't exactly supportive when I told them of my plan. as far as I know if she wasn't to start till her 5th birthday, they wouldn't allow her to join reception, she would have to go straight into year one (even though the latest dept edc documents appear to say otherwise)

[noblegiraffe]

I haven't applied for a school place yet

Do you live in an area where the schools are half empty or something? Aren't you worried that the only place for your dd will be an inadequate school the other side of town?

[EnglishRose1320]

smellyfishhead- we had to apply on time here due to limited spaces in the school and now there is a waiting list so I am glad we did. Is your dd going to go to a nursery until she starts school or just stay at home? I was trying to work out of ds could do some morning sessions at an independent nursery until he was ready for whole days at school.

Thanks for all the replies and similar stories, its good to hear that most children adapt well.

petalunicorn- when he has been tired on his nursery days they let him lie down in the book area but because it is a foundation unit- reception and nursery combined and there are 60 foundation children plus around 20/30 nursery children it is quite hard for him to really rest.

Fuzzymum- I am worried that DS2 will do little else apart from sleeping if he goes full time, how did you manage with your other children and things like swimming lessons/cubs etc.

[smellyfishead]

noble- no I live fairly rurally and most schools are undersubscribed (apart from the village ones) so its almost 100% a given that you'll get your school obviously I understand that this is not a choice for most, but we're in a fortunate position due to location.

English- yes she currently does 2 days at nursery 9-4 (where she is the only pre-schooler that naps! she goes to the baby room for sleep) and will continue with at least 2 days, depending on weather I go back to work this yr or next when she actually starts school.

To be honest I think we start our kids way to early in this country and could takes leaves out of other countries books, like Canada where they don't start full days, full time till 7...... cant comprehend sending her to school when she still sleeps so much and cant wipe her own bottom yet, jeez it was only about 8/9 months ago we were potty training!

[EnglishRose1320]

smellyfishhead- We use to be in a fairly rural area and I worked in the schools there- I would say it would still be worth applying now- legally you don't have to start her and they have to hold her place till the end of the academic year- I'm a worrier and would like to know that a place in the best possible school for my child was secure- but hey that's just me!

We do send them far too early- the countries that send them later mostly do much better overall as well.

[noblegiraffe]

On the other hand, my August-born DS has done really well in his first year of school. He's behind in things like motor skills and writing, which I'm not worried about, but he's way ahead in reading (even compared to the older children) and he loves it. It has also improved his social skills.

He'd have been bored at home and he'd outgrown pre-school. So for every person saying their child is too young, there may be another whose kid has been fine with it.

[EnglishRose1320]

Noblegiraffe- lots of his friends who are a similar age seem very ready for school, it does vary so much from child to child doesn't it?

I really don't want him to have to read and write yet, I want him to learn through play and explore, use his imagination- however I accept that I live in England and it is common place to focus on phonics at a young age and whilst it isn't ideal, I don't want him to miss out or differ greatly from his peers so on that front I am happy for him to start straight away, as long as he has enough energy and doesn't become too run down.

[littlejohnnydory]

You absolutely do have the right to send him part time - I would just inform the school that this is what you will be doing. Legally they have no authority to insist on full time for a child below statutory school age. It's good to have them on board but you don't need their permission, however hard they try to talk you out of it. Children below statutory school age don't count as part of the school's attendance figures and their absence can't be unauthorised - there is a different mark in the register for them. I sent my 2 older children part time for the first term of Reception even though they were September birthdays and the oldest in the class.

[Sirzy]

Can you agree with the school that you will take it on a day by day basis and see how he gets on then add in half days if needed?

DS is starting in September and although he no longer naps because he has brittle asthma he tires very quickly so I have agreed with the school he will start with the others but if we find it a problem then we will adapt his hours as needed.

I don't see what school think they will gain by having a knackered child to deal with. He won't learn anything if that tired anyway. But at the same time I can see why they want to encourage full time so a day by day approach may work in this case too?

[EnglishRose1320]

Sirzy I will ask if they are prepared to take it day by day, the trouble is if he doesn't cope and gets run down he will end up missing a lot more than if he gradually built up the hours he did.

[EnglishRose1320]

So I thought I was making progress- spoke to the head of the unit, explained how I felt and said that although I don't have a doctors note our GP is happy to back my choice and have a phone call with the head if needed- Head of unit asked me to put all of this in writing for the head, which I did and just got the following reply



'Having shown your letter regarding to Mrs B, she has asked me to email you to say that, although the letter outlines your reasoning, in order for the school to consider part time attendance we would definitely need to have a signed letter from your GP. I know when we spoke in the playground last week, I felt that a letter from yourself would at least get the process rolling which it has done in terms of making Mrs B aware of your request.


I feel that the next course of action is therefore for you to make a GP appointment as soon as possible and if your GP feels there is sufficient medical reason for a staged entry then a letter from him would help to support your request.


If you would like any further information then please email me - I will check my emails over the weekend,


Thanks,'



It isn't a medical reason- they don't seem to be listening, so although my GP will back me and say that my son is young for his age and still requires sleep he can't write a doctors note which I have explained to the school, and it hasn't helped by making the head aware because she was already aware so basically it has done nothing, grrr only 4 days left before they shut for the summer and I really wanted this sorted and was trying so hard to do it without falling out with the school but I am losing patience.

[Purpleroxy]

Dd's rec teacher used to have a quiet corner with a couple of cushions. If he's desperate to sleep, the teacher should be able to put him somewhere like that. I!d send him full time and have sick days if he is knackered or got runny nose etc.

[EnglishRose1320]

Purpleroxy- looks like I might have to send him full time and then he may well get as run down as he has before and end up with a doctors note, just seems so daft and horrible to have to wait until my son is struggling and unhappy, rather than preventing it in the first place.

With regards to a quiet corner- that do have story areas and when he goes in part time atm as a nursery child he will sit and look at books but the environment is too busy for him to sleep, just falls asleep on the way home instead.

[WastingMyYoungYears]

There's a useful closed FB group called Flexible School Admissions for Summer Borns for anyone that would like some support about this.

[EnglishRose1320]

Thanks Wasting- I did join that group but I am not very facebook savvy and all the info I could find on there was about deferring your child's place and whether or not to start aged 5 in YrR or Yr1- I am sure there was helpful info on there but I couldn't find it :(
Really hope I have made the right choice school wise for my DC, have found out that the other school in town is much more open to part time, but the school I have picked is 100% the right school for my older DS and the level of care from individual teachers is fantastic, just struggling with the head/governors/policies etc

[WastingMyYoungYears]

English, I think that the group works best if you post asking a question - there are lots of people there who are very knowledgeable about delaying, but also about other options like part-time attendance.

[EnglishRose1320]

Cool, well I shall give that a try then.

[EnglishRose1320]

Any advice on how to get the head teacher to at least agree to a meeting to talk about the options

[wannabestressfree]

But the head teacher has made her options clear. I don't understand what another meeting will solve. You have asked the school a question and they have denied it unless you have evidence.

Why not change to a school that allows flexibility?

[EnglishRose1320]

I can't change schools because DS1 is settled in the school- we moved him to it when we moved house and due to various issues change is a massive thing for him so it wouldn't be viable to look at other schools.

I just feel getting a passed on message saying 'no it's not something we do unless we see medical evidence' isn't much info, it would be nice to know why they don't, why they thinks it benefits children not to, to see an admission policy, to find out what they think will happen if they did. From when I worked in schools we saw each child as an individual an although I know you can't accommodate every need every Head teacher I have worked with would have had the decency to see the family and explain it from the schools view point.

My eldest DS is doing really well at the school, thriving in fact and I know it is a very child focused, caring school, I honestly didn't think I would come up against any problems when looking into part time so I am amazed at the lack of discussion and explanations, I literally have no idea why they are so against it.

[wannabestressfree]

Ok but playing devils advocate and as a teacher do they have to give you a detailed response and discussions into why? They have already laid out their admissions policy and explained what you need to provide to have a part time start. It's the end of term- does the head need to meet you to tell you what you already know?

Why can't he start and then see how he goes. He may surprise you. If he struggles then use this as the evidence you need?

[EnglishRose1320]

Maybe your right about it being the end of the term, I know teachers are very busy.

I will have a think over the summer and decide whether he is ready for full time, if he isn't he will just have to miss a term because that's the only option left. I'm not going to send him full time unless I am very sure he will cope, I am not happy for him to struggle/ just manage and get more and more run down and unhappy.

[EnglishRose1320]

So I have to decide by Thursday- clearly the school are not going to accept part time hours, so do I send him full time, hope for the best and keep him off on days that he doesn't cope or do I delay his start by a term or two (which seems a massive step backwards but might be needed)

Arghh I really wasn't expecting to have to worry about this at all and it is just extra stress that I don't need right now.