Is hothousing necesserily a bad thing?

[columngollum]

Interesting point coming out of a nearby discussion, (but requires a separate thread.)

Hothousing is a word invariably used as an insult. But is it one? It has been said, I don't know if it's true, that starting tennis at five is too old. Presumably most three or four year olds don't show great tennis genius, so presumably all three year old tennis players are being hothoused!

But, I guess if they're playing tiddlywinks and not tennis then they're not being hothoused (but I can't see the difference.)

[richmal]

If you don't want to teach your child to read before they show an interest, then don't. If you want to show them how to read before this then do. For me, I can't see why people don't want to teach their children. I don't think I'm competitive about it. As an adult I still think learning is enjoyable.

[mammadiggingdeep]

I don't think anybody is saying you shouldn't allow a child to learn in response to their interest and at a sensible pace. Some people are rather more competitive about it that that. We all know that.

[BertieBowtiesAreCool]

I definitely think that "hothousing" means either to force the issue or to obsess over it so that the child doesn't have enough opportunity to discover and explore other interests.

So, if say your child liked tennis, and you signed them up to a tennis club and they were enjoying it and you played tennis with them at home as well maybe once or twice a week and took them to a sports club to play occasionally, but they have other interests, they like to play with trains and dressing up and colouring in and being read to, perhaps you might see a Wimbledon sticker book that they like or find a story book about tennis, again, that's just normal encouraging your child's interest (assuming they have lots of other books, toys, interests etc or at least the opportunity to explore these - a lot of toddlers get obsessive over things)

But if your child shows an interest in tennis and then you jump on it like a rabid frog and sign them up to three or four tennis clubs and you visit the sports centre every weekend and play with them and you also play tennis with them every day at home for at least an hour, making up games to practice different aspects, and you encourage them to watch tennis on TV rather than other things and you mainly read them books about tennis players, it doesn't matter how fun and engaging you're making it and how much they're enjoying it, I would say that IS hothousing. It's not like threatening them if they don't practice or forcing them to keep trying a particular move until they get it even when they're getting upset, but it is quite obsessive to the point of taking over, and I'd say a child that has that much tennis in their life probably doesn't have much time or space or energy to pursue other interests, which I think is really important at a young age.

[mammadiggingdeep]

Bertie...

"Obsessive to the point of taking over"

You've hit the nail on the head!

[Huitre]

DD has learnt a lot without being 'taught' by adults. I have answered lots of questions when she's asked, but that isn't quite the same, is it?

[richmal]

Huitre It depends on how you define teaching. It is imparting knowledge, which is the dictionary definition, but I do agree it is not formal lessons. However, I just used to do 5 mins here and there of reading or counting games. Children also learn a lot from TV too or educational computer programs, which I would count as teaching.

[simpson]

My DD also learnt to read at a basic level with zero input from me. I have to confess at the time I was a bit lazy about reading to her as well, so she did not get it from that either.

I honestly don't have a clue how she did it. She could read her name and then applied "rules" from that ie her name ends in a Y which makes an ee sound and it has 2 letters that make one sound so from that she could read: happy, carrot, rabbit, silly etc as well as "a cat sat on a mat" type words.

But I do agree that once I realised she could read, which I admit took some time then I showed her various phonics sounds which I only had to tell her once and she remembered because she was ready iyswim.

I also think "hot housing" is doing stuff whether it be maths/reading/writing that a child simply is not developmentally ready for.

On holiday in the summer, I encountered a family whose grandparent (retired teacher) taught them the curriculum for their current school year before they covered it in class to make sure the kids stayed in the "top sets"

IMO it is not (doing extra stuff at home) to enable your child to stay ahead of the rest of the class (ie top set) but because the child has an interest in the given subject.

[columngollum]

The phrase hothousing is doing stuff the child is not developmentally ready for could also simply be described as bad teaching. If you taught in appropriate steps the child would be ready.

It seems to me that the problem with hothousing is that everybody has a different definition of it.

Everything I do is fine.

But everything you do is hothousing.

[columngollum]

mamma, please quote me word for word where I've explained to you that I've had my daughter reading particular classics.

No paraphrasing, mind you. Direct quotes.

[richmal]

simpson, if the grandparents were willing to teach, the children happy to learn and the parents had no objection, I fail to see where the problem is

[mammadiggingdeep]

Oh coloumn, honestly- you know and I know you wrote it. If you didn't I don't know why it was debated so thoroughly on a thread a few weeks back. I don't have the inclination to quote you. If, I have entirely dreamt up a thread and the content if it- it if it wasn't you, I apologise.

I still don't agree with your persistent negativity to any teacher/school/teaching method that basically isn't you or your idea.

The phrase 'everything I do is fine' might come back to bite you on the bum one day.

[columngollum]

I know what I wrote. I also know you girls said that you feared what I had done. And the last thing I wrote was

in the absence of knowledge fear away, girls, fear away.

In the absence of knowledge, mamma, dear, please refrain from attempting to educate others on the subject of what I have done and what I haven't done.

Thank you.

[simpson]

Richmal - because the grandparent kept going on about how important it was for them to be in top sets and how hard work it was. Fair enough, I did not really know them (the family) but the impression I got was that it was done (extra work) so the kids could stay in top sets, not necessarily because the kids wanted it iyswim.

All the extra stuff I do with my DC is because they want to do it, not to keep them in the top sets/ahead of the rest of the class.

I don't agree with it being bad teaching to mean a child does not understand something, especially if a child is young then I think that the parent has to go with their gut instinct about what a child can do and most importantly making it fun for them. My DD for example can cope with her yr4 brothers literacy work (ok, not done to yr4 standard but she wants and enjoys doing it) and she also wants to do his numeracy homework but has a hissy fit because she can't do it and I for one am not going to show her because she is not ready (ie does not understand the concept of times tables, division or neither is her mental maths strong enough - it's about being realistic).

[Saracen]

Introducing another tangent to the discussion -

It strikes me that when people say "hothousing" they are always referring to pushing a child of average or above-average ability to achieve at a higher level when the child isn't interested.

But do the same thing to a child of low ability, and the very same act is considered kind and helpful. In such a case it is called "intensive intervention", "extra help", "remedial work" or "catch-up sessions".

For instance, consider two children in Year Three, neither of whom is particularly interested in improving their mathematical abilities this year. Child A is working confidently at a Year 3 level but the parents make her do an extra hour a day of maths practice in hopes of getting her up to a Year 5 level. Hothousing, right?

Child B, in the same class, is making slow steady progress and is working at a Year 1 level. The parents make her do an extra hour of maths practice every day in an effort to get her up to a Year 3 level. Is that hothousing?

I say yes. To the children it must feel the same. I have a Child B, and I won't hothouse her. Learning isn't a race.

[mammadiggingdeep]

I must have dreamt you bragging saying that your child could read the classics in reception then column.

[columngollum]

If you'd like to quote me word for word I'll run through them with you, certainly.

[NK5BM3]

Well I think hothousing is not a bad thing if the kid actually enjoys it. I come from one of those countries constantly brought up as an example of where kids are constantly hothoused, made to do lots of extra curricular activities 'just coz' rather than through genuine interest.

My children who are 5 and 3 did or are doing gym, swimming, language school, music and tennis (not all of it by one child!!). I don't think it's too much but some might. I work ft as does my dh and we don't have grandparents etc to drive them to these activities so we do them ourselves... We thought of dance for one of them, but we don't think she's ready so we aren't doing that just yet.

We have friends who's child seems v gifted in one of the activities mentioned on this post. Within 6 months of taking up that sport, he was entered into competitions and was beating the rivals who were up to 2 years older than him. The parents went from a half hour session/week to something like 3x a week, 2hr at a time! And weekends were comps. They would travel an hour or 2 to competitions within the county. They are talking about inter county comps now.

Is that hothousing? The boy seems keen to play that sport. He also likes playing with trains and Lego when he's got the time. frankly I think they can afford the time only because one parent doesn't work so spends that time after school ferrying to the training sessions. If it were our family, ds wouldn't even have reached that level because there's no way we could have ferried him to these training sessions 3x a week! 1x maybe but probably that would not have been sufficient to get him up to comp level right?

[mammadiggingdeep]

No thank you. I've just read the thread back and know what you wrote.

[DoesntLeftoverTurkeySoupDragOn]

I think people are mistaking "hothousing" with doing something a child enjoys.

I you live in an area with competitive grammar schools, you'll know what real hothousing is.

[DoesntLeftoverTurkeySoupDragOn]

As an aside...

Luckily my daughter has no problems with reading Dickens at home and doing phonics actions in school.

from here

[mammadiggingdeep]

[columngollum]

Good oh, DoesntLeft, and your point is?

[mammadiggingdeep]

I think she's just quoting (not paraphrasing) where you said that you have your daughter read classics at home.

[columngollum]

And the version being read is?

[mammadiggingdeep]

Zzzzzzzzzz......yawn.

If it was the children's version (which was discussed on the thread and at no point did you say she read these versions) then thank f%#k for that. A bit of sense at last :) something we agree on.