I don't understand phonics and reading

[Catinthebed]

Ds is P1 Northern Ireland. Didn't know any letters or sounds when he started due to speech and language difficulty.

Has now done a number of phonics and had a few picture only readers. Today he got his first reading with a word in it and he knows it say "look". However he hasn't done L or K as a phonic.

He is Dc 4 and I am bit lost as none of the rest did phonics and it's complicated by speech and language complications.

Should I teach him to sound out "look" or is that going backwards given as he already knows it?

[columngollum]

Sometimes letters have the same sound but are actually different letters, sometimes they sound different depending on their uses and sometimes they look different depending on where and when they're placed. Using their sound wouldn't cater for all these situations unless further descriptions were used as well, in which case the entire combination would serve as a longer and more complicated letter name.

[Feenie]

Sometimes letters have the same sound but are actually different letters

[mrz]

I must pass on that wisdom to the children I teach columngollum ... they don't seem to realise what they do isn't possible without letter names.

[mrz]

It's from The Science of Word Recognition

[columngollum]

Sometimes letters have the same sound but are actually different letters

Your problem is, ma'am?

[maizieD]

Sometimes letters have the same sound but are actually different letters

I think the problem is that your above statement is complete gobbledegook and makes no sense whatsoever.

I suspect that what you are trying to say is that a letter can spell more than one sound. It's still not a particularly compelling argument for using letter names

[Feenie]

I think the problem is that your above statement is complete gobbledegook and makes no sense whatsoever.

Thanks Maizie - that about covers it

[columngollum]

Gosh, it must be really complicated then. I wonder what it could possibly mean.

[columngollum]

There's nothing like a good argument is there? And why use one when you've got pictures?

[mrz]

Good phonics teaching teaches

That letters are symbols we use to represent sounds
A sound can be spelt with 1,2,3 or 4 letters
One sound can be spelt in different ways
One spelling can represent different sounds

and more importantly ...good phonics teaching teaches how to apply that knowledge

[zebedeee]

'Experience, backed by research tells me that children using letter names or combination of letter names and sounds struggle.'

A quick google reveals there is also research to suggest that learning letter names 'is a future predictor of reading and writing success in young children'.

'Why do the letters have to have names for writing?'

Letter names are really useful to talk about writing.

[mrz]

Letter names are really useful to talk about writing. Really zebedee perhaps you can explain how you find them useful?

^"At the same time, children learn about the sounds of language through exposure to linguistic awareness games, nursery rhymes, and rhythmic activities. Some research suggests that the roots of phonemic awareness, a powerful predictor of later reading success, are found in traditional rhyming, skipping, and word games (Bryant et al. 1990).
In one study (Mclean, Bryant, & Bradley 1987), for example, researchers found that three-year-old children’s knowledge of nursery rhymes specifically related to their more abstract phonological knowledge later on. Engaging children in choral reading of rhymes
and rhythms allows them to associate the symbols with the sounds they hear in these words."^

"Key early literacy predictors of reading and school success include oral language, Alphabetic Code, and print knowledge."

[NeedlesCuties]

OP, have you spoken to your DS's teacher? Does she/he have any advice?

Also, are you from NI? Do you have a problem with the accent if you're from elsewhere. I agree with what others said about the Scottish accent not using different sounds, and as a native NI person I think we're the same

[mrz]

The same applies right across the UK NeedlesCuties teaching should reflect child's accent and be "tweaked" as needed.

[maizieD]

Gosh, it must be really complicated then. I wonder what it could possibly mean.

That's what we'd all like to know.

Can you reword your statement in such a way that letters (which, to my knowledge don't have the transfigurative powers of a Time Lord) don't change from being themselves to being a different letter? Then we might understand your point.

[maizieD]

A quick google reveals there is also research to suggest that learning letter names 'is a future predictor of reading and writing success in young children'.

Correlation is not causation. A quick google will throw up statements copied from web site to web site which are not necessarily 'true'; though I agree that a number of researchers seem to accept the 'learning letter names' thing as true. Particularly if they don't understand how phonics 'works'.

[NeedlesCuties]

mrz I understand that about teachers should be able to tweak things. What I wondered was that maybe the child is growing up in NI, but the OP might not be from same country, and thus might have different accent/type of pronunciation.

Either way, it's a bit of a non-question, just one I was curious about

[Mashabell]

Mrz
Letter names are really useful to talk about writing. Really zebedee perhaps you can explain how you find them useful?

If a child asks, for example, "How do you spell through or 'friend'"?, u have to call the letters something. They are not words that can be completely sounded out.

Some teachers now give the letters a, e, i, o and u the names of their short sounds, rather their traditional names which use the long sound, but they still call them something when children ask with help for spelling.

[mrz]

"u have to call the letters something. They are not words that can be completely sounded out."
are you suggesting there are no sounds in the word friend masha

my class of 5 year olds can work it out so I only need to show them the spelling for the sound /e/ ... I don't spell out words for them ...I don't need to!