How to move on from spelling phonetically?

[LynetteScavo]

Is reading lots the answer? And if so, what do you do with a child who is a reluctant reader?

Only because you post them all over the internet at the drop of a hat - or self-publish them in your books, Masha. The numbers are your own invention, and your lists are arranged in extraordinary and peculiar ways. Let's have a bit of realism here.

Thank u for mentioning that I have written some books Feenie.
None of my print books were self-published.
Self-publishing an ebook is becoming quite common, because most publishers don't give authors much help nowadays, leaving the editing to them and their friends.

My numbers are based on a meticulous analysis of the spellings of the 7,000 most used English words. I did so to bring so realism to the many different claims made about English spelling without any research basis.

Please say, by all means, what is extraordinary or peculiar, for example, about the list of spelling patterns for the 44 English sounds which I posted the other day?

(The figures in brackets show how many of the 7,000 most used English words which I have analysed use that spelling - and how many spell it differently.)

1. a: cat – plait, meringue (466 – 3)
2. a-e: plate – wait, weight, straight, great, table dahlia, fete (338 – 69)

-ain: rain – lane, vein, reign, champagne (39 – 19) -ay: play – they, weigh,ballet,cafe, matinee (35 – 20)

1. air: care – hair, bear, aerial, their, there, questionnaire (31-are – 27 other)
2. ar: car – are + (Southern Engl. bath) (138 – 1)
3. au: sauce – caught, bought,always, tall, crawl (44 au – 76 other)

-aw: saw – (0)- but in UK 11-aw + 40 awe, or, four, sore, war

1. b: bed (0)
2. ca/o/u: cat, cot, cut – character, kangaroo, queue (1022 – 33)

cr/cl: crab/ clot – chrome, chlorine (192 – 10) -c: lilac –stomach, anorak (89 – 9) -ck: neck –cheque, rec (62 – 6) k: kite/ kept – chemistry (124 – 7) -k: seek –unique (36 – 5) -sk: risk –disc, mosque (86 – 10) qu: quick – acquire, choir (78 – 4) x: fix – accept, except, exhibit (98 – 15)

1. ch: chest – cello (155 – 1)

-tch: clutch – much (24 – 7) 9 d: dad – add, blonde (1,010 – 3)

10. e: end– head, any, said, Wednesday, friend, leisure,
    leopard, bury (301 – 67)

11. er: her – turn, bird, learn, word, journey (70er – 124)

12. ee: eat– eel, even, ceiling, field, police,people,
    me, key,ski, debris, quay (152ea – 304)
    --y: jolly– trolley, movie, corgi (475 – 39)

13. f: fish– photo, stuff, rough (580 - 44)

14. g: garden– ghastly, guard (171– 28)

15. h: house– who (237 – 4)

16. i: ink– mystery, pretty, sieve, women, busy, build (421 – 53)

17. i-e: bite – might, style, mild, kind, eider, height, climb
    island indict sign (278 – 76)
    -y: my – high,pie, rye, buy, I, eye (17 – 14)

18. j: jam/ jog/ jug (0)
    jelly, jig – gentle, ginger (18 – 20)
    -ge: gorge (0)
    -dg: fidget– digit (29 – 11)

19. l: last– llama (1,945 – 1)
    20: m: mum– dumb, autumn (1,128 – 19)

20. n: nose– knot, gone, gnome, mnemonic (2,312 – 34)

21. -ng: ring (0) 22

22. o: on– cough, sausage, gone(357 – 5)
    want – wont (19 – 1); quarrel– quod (10 -1)

23. o-e: mole – bowl, roll, soul; old – mould
    boast, most, goes, mauve (171 – 100)
    -o: no –toe, dough, sew, cocoa, pharaoh, oh, depot (106 – 59)

24. oi: oil– oyster (29 –1)
    -oy: toy –buoy (12 – 1)

25. oo (long): food– rude, shrewd, move, group, fruit, truth, tomb,
    blue, do, shoe,through, manoeuvre (94 – 108)

26. oo (short): good– would, put, woman, courier (15 -21)

27. or: order– board, court; wart, quart– worn, quorn (188 – 16)
    -ore:more – soar, door, four, war, swore,abhor (23– 17)

    • (14 –aw/awe in UK)

28. ou: out– town (74 – 24);
    -ow: now – plough (11 – 4)

29. p: pin (0)

30. r: rug– rhubarb, write (1,670 – 27)

31. s: sun – centre,scene (138 – 49)
    -ce: face – case; fancy– fantasy (153 – 65)

32. sh: shop – chute, sure, moustache, liquorice (166 – 30)
    -tion: ignition– mission, pension, suspicion,fashion (216 – 81)

33. t: tap, pet – pterodactyl, two, debt (1,398 – 4)
    --te: delicate – democrat (52 – 3)

34. th (sharp): this (0)

35. th (soft): thing (0)

36. u: up– front, some, couple, blood (308 – 68)

37. u-e: cute – you,newt, neutral, suit, beauty, Tuesday, nuclear (137 – 21)
    -ue: cue –few, view,menu (20– 22)

38. v: van (0)
    -ve: have –spiv (116– 3) [80 with surplus –e]
    -v-: river– chivvy (73 – 7) – v/vv after short vowel

39. w: window– which (216 – 31)

40. y: yak– use (31 – 11)

41. z: zip– xylophone (16 – 1)
    -se: rose –froze (85– 33)
    wise– size (UK 31 – 3, US 11 – 22)

42. zh: -si-/-su-: vision, measure – azure (20 – 3)

43. Unstressed, unclear vowel sound (or schwa),
    occurring mainly in 8 endings and 2 prefixes:
    -able: loveable– credible(33 – 17)
    -ccle: bundle (2 consonants + -le for -l) (0)
    -al: vertical– novel, anvil, petrol (200+ – 32)
    -ary: ordinary– machinery, inventory, century,carpentry(37 – 55)
    -en: fasten– abandon, truncheon, orphan, goblin, certain (73 – 132)
    -ence: absence– balance (33 – 26)
    -ent: absent – pleasant (176 – 58)
    -er: father –author, armour, nectar, centre, injure,quota (UK 340, US 346 – 135/129)
    butcher – picture (42 –ure)
    de-: decide – divide (57 – 29)
    in-: indulge – endure (73 – 30)

Consonant doubling rule for showing short, stressed vowels
merry (regular) – very(missing) – serrated(surplus)
(423 - 513 - 239)

masha I think your figure of ten years is greatly underestimated as I said earlier it would take a lifetime to learn to spell all English words

Mrz
it would take a lifetime to learn to spell all English words
I did underestimate a bit. Pupils of average spelling ability still can't spell many of the 7,000 most used words by the age of 16. That's after 12 years of learning.

I doubt if anyone ever learns to spell all English words. Even highly educated people remain unsure about many of the ones they use quite regularly.

And that is entirely due to English having no reliable system for spelling them.

pleased you agree your figures are faulty masha

Anyone see this really interesting article? It seems to indicate that musical training can significantly enhance a student's potential to learn to read.

'...the researchers found that those who had better musical training also had enhanced neural responses to speech sounds. In poorer readers this response was diminished.
'Neural jitter'

"It turns out that kids who are poor readers have a lot of difficulty doing this motor task and following the beat. In both speech and music, rhythm provides a temporal map with signposts to the most likely locations of meaningful input," Prof Kraus told BBC News.

The brainwaves recorded matched the soundwaves, she said. "You can even take the recorded brainwave and play it back through your speaker and it will sound like the soundwave.

"It seems that the same ingredients that are important for reading are strengthened with musical experience. Musicians have highly consistent auditory-neural responses.

"It may be that musical training - with its emphasis on rhythmic skills - can exercise the auditory-system, leading to less neural jitter and stronger sound-to-meaning associations that are so essential for learning to read," added Prof Kraus'

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14316028

I just found this article, which sort of links with mathanxiety's, and I found interesting.