Please talk to me about Steiner Schools

[DoTheBestThingsInLifeHaveFleas]

Hi there

Please bear with me, I may ramble....

There is a Steiner School opening near to where I live. It will open when DD is due to start school. I do not know much about them apart from the prospectus information and an informal chat with the headmaster. It will be a free school funded by the local government. Initially I like the ethos, but do have some concerns.

My DP and I were both state educuated and feel massively let down by the system and that it really prevented us from making more of our lives. Only our wonderful parents support ensured we are where we are today, and although we both take personal responsibility for our actions, we want better for our DD. I really do not want her going to a school where the kids make you feel that 'learning is for geeks and saddos' and that she has to be naughty and rude just to try and fit in (Yes this is what I felt I had to do and until I started to behave badly to try and fit in life at school was unbearable. And yes I am bitter!!!) or aspiring to be a WAG when she grows up. DP was the other extreme and one of the ones who made my life miserable. He is a bright and intelligent person, and was bored and under stretched at school and so started trouble and distracted others. Again we both take personal responsibility for our actions, but really at 12 - 16 years old it's hard to understand the impact you are having on your life.

So anyway, do we go for a private school, which will be very hard financially (although a sacrifice we are willing to make) and also have its pitfalls, or could a Steiner school be the right move? Any comments welcome, thank you in advance.

[burberryqueen]

I'm a teacher changing educational paradimes - sounds about right..

[NeoMaxiZoomDweebie]

Seeker but there was no variation at all....always the same colour pallette and always watery. No experimentation in terms of medium at ALL. No sticking wool down....no charcoal no pencil/...

[NeoMaxiZoomDweebie]

Worldgonecrazy in Steiner schools the art is markedly similar in all ways. No encouragement to experiment at all.

[seeker]

I know, neo- I was agreeing with you! Deeply depressing it was!

[worldgonecrazy]

I guess we have to agree to disagree. My experience of art within DD's Steiner school is extremely different to yours. Of course the lessons are about learning techniques, so the children will all be using the same medium or technique in a lesson, isn't that how art lessons are run in most schools? It's certainly my memory of art at school.

The Steiner Alumni lists several well known artists and designers, and the standard of art in the upper years at DD's school is extremely high (to my untrained eye), with creativity and experimentation encouraged.

[seeker]

Worldgonecrazy- have you had any further thoughts about Steiner schools and the qualifications the children leave with?

[NeoMaxiZoomDweebie]

seeker yes it was depressing....and it's not something most people would notice.

[Chivetalking]

Why not make a look at your local state school your starting point rather than a default opting for financial hardship or woo?

My DC have never had to be naughty and rude to fit in and none of them aspire to be WAGS

[worldgonecrazy]

seeker not really. I am extremely happy with the school that DD goes to, the children are polite, and well educated. Many of them go on to the extremely well thought of local Sixth Form College. I have no issues with the school or its syllabus, nor do I doubt that DD will achieve her full potential there. I could not, hand on heart, say the same for any of our local state schools and I am not of the opinion that the massive amount of academic pressure in the local grammar and private schools is healthy (having seen what it does to thos of my friends' children who are not academically gifted).

As I have said many, many times, the true nature of a school can be judged by the young adults it turns out into the world.

[seeker]

I agree with practically everything you say.

I just have issues with presenting a school as something it is not. There is nothing wrong with not focussing on academic achievement. There is something badly wrong with implying that you do and thus misleading prospective parents.

[ToffeeWhirl]

When I visited a Steiner school recently, I also noticed the art looking samey, but then it reminded me of the art in DS2's mainstream state school, where children also turn out the same type of pictures. His state school held an art exhibition one year, to raise money for the school, and I was so impressed by DS2's fingerprint picture of bluebells - until I noticed that it was identical to all the other children's.

At the Steiner school we visited, all the children take Art GCSE. The alumni include many artists, as well as academics, musicians, architects and a range of other professionals.

I am not pro-Steiner, by any means - if anything, I have always been rather sceptical of it. However, we know several children who have been miserable in large comprehensives and are now thriving at this school. As my son can't cope in any mainstream school and wants to go back to school, this is our only option.

[Cloverer]

Steiner has a particular way of teaching art - children are all taught to do particular pictures in particular ways rather than the "process not outcome" approach to art that is typical in mainstream early years settings.

I think the biggest misconception about Steiner is that it is very unstructured and free, when actually there is a lot of structure underpinning what they do. The religious/faith aspect informs the teaching in a way that it doesn't in say a Catholic faith school. Catholic schools don't teach reading at a particular point because Jesus says so for example, or teach dance in a particular religious way.

I do know people who have gone to and sent their children to Steiner schools and have been very happy with it. However, I don't think they are great for children with learning difficulties, and would think carefully if you are non-white. The schools might not be overtly racist but many teachers will be very into the Steiner philosophy which does place white people are spiritually superior.

Visit the schools, but also do your research about the religious/philosophical aspects. No TV might be something you agree with, but are you so comfortable about no TV because it might stop your child's astral body incarnating properly?

[DoTheBestThingsInLifeHaveFleas]

Wow I had absolutely no idea what an emotional issue the Steiner thing is! I clearly need to do massive research and have a really good think about what I want from education for DD and what is feasible. Sorry if I have caused offence to anyone at all. I was referring to mine and DP's experience at state school, and appreciate that there are some fabulous ones around, and the majority if children who attend them do well and reach their full potential. Also realise how hard all the teaching staff and others work in less than perfect conditions. Perhaps we will have to move house. Thanks again all, massive food for thought. I have some homework to do!!!!

[pointythings]

I have to disagree with the poster who said that art looks the same or similar in mainstream schools within a given topic. Not my experience at all, within the range of theme and technique/medium assigned, the work produced covers a range of styles and no two pieces are the same.

[ToffeeWhirl]

That was me. It's true in my DS2's school. I can't speak for others.

[NeoMaxiZoomDweebie]

That's right Pointy...and then there is Eurythmy

[teacherwith2kids]

One of the issues for me about Steiner schools is that they are a 'fossilised' institution. Because they are so rigidly based on Steiner's original thinking, and the whole thing is so controlled and structured by that thinking and set of beliefs (and because Steiner died in 1925) the schools have not been able to progress in any way. They were, in their time, innovative - but they have not been able to continue that process of innovation and so have slowly fossilised. It's a bit like choosing to send one's child to a state school from the 1920s - or even Eton or Winchester in the 1920s. However good the original underpinning educational philosophy and values, the simple failure to move on with new thinking (and the lack of a mechanism for Steiner schools to do so) would set alarm bells ringing for me as an educational system that might fit a child to enter the modern world.
It's a bit like 'art nouveau' or impressionism or taking the pill in the 1960s - original, innovative, even shocking at the time, but not at the forefront of thinking so many years later...

[Takver]

OP, I would definitely visit the school that you're thinking of, because I think that Steiner schools (like state schools, and like other private schools) must differ hugely.

I wouldn't consider Steiner myself (if I have to have religion imposed on dd in school, I'm damn well not going to pay for it!), but I know several parents who send their dc to the local-ish Steiner school.

There's lots of movement in and out of the Steiner/home ed/regular local schools, and I really doubt that anyone could pick out the Steiner dc from your standard state educated hippy child round here.

A friend was invited to apply for a job as teacher there, she isn't Steiner trained, but has a regular PGCE qualification. She queried this & they didn't seem to find it a big issue (though she decided not to apply because of distance/salary, so don't know what the outcome would have been), they did want her to be able to sing though, but then regular primaries always seem to want singing/piano too.

The only fundamental disadvantage - apart from the fees - that I can see is that they don't do any Welsh, which is a big thing here. I've been to fetes et al & the art doesn't look noticeably samey or anything like that.

[Willdoitinaminute]

//www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/1758530-Please-talk-to-me-about-Steiner-Schools?pg=5
Try this link for actual figures for gcse scores. It is a little different to the figures on the school website. Elm field is within 5 miles of one of the best state schools in the west mids. I can't work out how they can make this claim.

[Willdoitinaminute]

Sorry wrong link having a blond moment.
//www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/school.pl?urn=103876&qtype=LA

[wandymum]

I would categorically NEVER send a child of mine to a Steiner school. I find the ideology behind it extremely worrying and am frankly outraged that they are being tax payer funded via the Free School system now.

[NigelYerABawbag]

I went to Elmfield.

Leaving aside the whole Steiner thing, the figures for GCSE passes as given by the DfE only count GCSEs taken in Yr 11 (or at least when i was there that was the case). Elmfield goes on with a further year and when I was there it was normal to take another 6/7 GCSEs at age 17. I would've taken 11 in total had I stayed there for GCSEs which I didn't.

[NigelYerABawbag]

I have to say btw that I wouldn't send my DC to a Steiner school for various reasons, though I do like some things about them. My experience was utterly shit, I'm not going to go into details as it would identify me to any Steiner trolls reading this and I don't fancy being picked apart over it, but suffice to say it caused me lasting damage.