Please talk to me about Steiner Schools

[DoTheBestThingsInLifeHaveFleas]

Hi there

Please bear with me, I may ramble....

There is a Steiner School opening near to where I live. It will open when DD is due to start school. I do not know much about them apart from the prospectus information and an informal chat with the headmaster. It will be a free school funded by the local government. Initially I like the ethos, but do have some concerns.

My DP and I were both state educuated and feel massively let down by the system and that it really prevented us from making more of our lives. Only our wonderful parents support ensured we are where we are today, and although we both take personal responsibility for our actions, we want better for our DD. I really do not want her going to a school where the kids make you feel that 'learning is for geeks and saddos' and that she has to be naughty and rude just to try and fit in (Yes this is what I felt I had to do and until I started to behave badly to try and fit in life at school was unbearable. And yes I am bitter!!!) or aspiring to be a WAG when she grows up. DP was the other extreme and one of the ones who made my life miserable. He is a bright and intelligent person, and was bored and under stretched at school and so started trouble and distracted others. Again we both take personal responsibility for our actions, but really at 12 - 16 years old it's hard to understand the impact you are having on your life.

So anyway, do we go for a private school, which will be very hard financially (although a sacrifice we are willing to make) and also have its pitfalls, or could a Steiner school be the right move? Any comments welcome, thank you in advance.

An article in the Guardian last year on Steiner schools was followed by 257
comments over three days. The final ones look like a summary:

bit.ly/16lrpm1

I observed the steiner school near me in the park one day. Children weren't too badly behaved, of the four teachers however, three were enjoying their afternoon on their backs, sunbathing, eyes closed.

That, and the children barefoot in a rather notorious grass park did it for me.

I cud have easily nicked a child, a child step on a needle or a child ran off!

If you want to go private there will be dozens of options. Steiner is one of those. If it's one you'd choose, fine.

It freaks me out.

There's pne in Herefordshire that receives state funding. from that Guardian article

'The Herefordshire school offers just five GCSEs: English, English literature, maths, Spanish and art. No physics, chemistry, biology, geography or history. It's quite common for pupils to take just the English and maths GCSEs, and a BTEC in Countryside and Environment.'

Does that sound like it would give children the chance to thrive academically?

I think you need to actually look at your local schools. IME state schools do not routinely churn out wannabe wags or bullies who beat up kids that want to learn - that may have been your and your dp's experience but probably won't be your child's experience, particularly with your awareness - that said teenagers have hormones whatever school they go to, Steiner, Eton or comp!

If your local schools are truly awful move.

It's not really clear what you want from a school either - academics or creative. Often schools are strong in one area at the expense of the other....

Good advice from Titchy. Worth adding that while I totally get the issues you're talking about you and DP experiencing, isn't this more of a secondary school thing? You might want to save your money for then, or 7+ at the very earliest, as unless you're incredibly unlucky, the first few years at a nice primary should be fine (as long as it's not Steiner!).

My DD goes to a Steiner School and she loves it. In response to a PP, there are ethnic minorities at the school and they enjoy it there too. The school doesn't have the teachers or equipment to cope with severely disabled people and are open about the fact they can only manage a limited number of special needs children so review applications from them on a case-by-case basis.

Academically her school scored the best GCSE results in the area last year, and always achieve above average. The local 6th form college (especially the Physics tutor) love the children from her school because they have a love of learning and thirst for knowledge, and an ability to think for themselves, because the school does not teach children to pass exams, but to enjoy learning. I can't find the reference but down south somewhere, one of the universities will allow Steiner-educated pupils on to it's Physics Degree course without Physics A-level because of the way those pupils have learned to think. (Incidentally I had an interesting conversation with the science teacher at DD's school (he has a PhD in Microbiology) as I love science and hope that DD grows to love it too).

In common with other schools, DD's school has a racism and bullying policy which is applied.

Sports facilities are limited within the school due to space, but they do manage lots of gym, tennis and football, plus the outdoor play area has lots of climbing equipment. Pupils at the school have competed at County level in various sports including fencing and swimming.

As an aside, Bethany Woodard, British Paralympian Medal Winner, went to a Steiner School, as did Kenneth Chennault, the CEO and President of American Express, whose skin colour happens to be black. Both of them speak very highly of their time at Steiner Schools.

BUT I WILL PUT IN A BIG PROVISO HERE. Visit the school, have a look at the young adults that it puts out into the world and make your judgement from there. DD's school turns out a very high percentage of incredible, bright, curious, polite, enthusiastic and confident young adults.

Yes, it can be scary to think DD will be learning how to cook on campfires, climb trees, build dens and knit, whilst other parents are boasting that their 7 year old can read Shakespeare and score highly on SATS, but I think that Steiner education needs to be looked at long-term. It's about the end-product, not short-termism.

zooey.wordpress.com/2013/05/25/good-news-from-france/

Ask how the parents are involved, lots of Steiner schools rely on parental help including cleaning, decorating, usual fundraising and spending the holidays gardening.

Also, how do they expect you to live the philosophy at home. Often they want the parents to mirror the school's teaching which may frown upon families having computers and televisions.

I spend one afternoon at a Steiner Kindergarten and was gobsmacked how they tried to shield the children (German children, 5-6 year olds) from normal reality. The teacher told us that he was concerned when a imaginative play about being at the seaside included suddenly an oil platform and how he was relieved when they went back to their fairy world.

Children who are good academically often can get bored as the schools are not overly stimulating in this area. Also children who thrive on a structure will struggle as this is fairly missing.

Saying that, a child struggling in a mainstream school can thrive in such a surrounding. But you still have to accept the philosophy behind it.

Educationally interesting (more so than state schools).
Good for a certain type of child.
Vary in quality, quite hugely.
Anthroposophy is deeply strange and though they will not push it at first, actually underpins everything they teach and how they teach it. The teachers are constantly judging your child on the basis of their incarnation. NB devotees (which doesnt mean all the parents necessarily) really do believe in gnomes. It isn't a metaphor.
Bullying is seen as a way that past incarnations solve problems in the present.
Disability is impure.
Parental involvement is high, which means socialising with some rather horrible people who are very good are 'being lovely.
I wouldn't dream of being part of this.

"Academically her school scored the best GCSE results in the area last year, and always achieve above average."

Really? I've never heard of that happening before.......when you say "area" what do you mean?

from the Steiner FAQ www.steinerwaldorf.org/faqs.html#academically

How do pupils succeed academically?

A number of UK Steiner schools offer a limited range of GCSE's and A levels or recognised equivalents.

Area means within 5 miles.

If you want to travel further out (10 miles) then the nearest big city does have a 100%.

And how many schools are in that 5 mile radius?

I don't mean to sound forensic, but you have posted something that I consider misleading, and I think clarity is essential.

95% of what? A-C including English and maths?

How many took GCSEs and in what subjects last year?

DD's school teaches English Language, English Literature, Maths, Physics, Biology, Chemistry, History, French, German, Spanish, Design & Technology, Art & Design, Dance, Music and Drama.

I'm afraid I don't have the breakdown of the individual exams. There are usually around 30-35 pupils taking exams. A local search suggests there are 35 high schools within a 5 mile radius. DD's school are justifiable very proud of their academic results, particularly as they are achieved without pressure or hothousing. 11% of pupils go on to Oxbridge, I don't have the figures for other universities.

I do get really annoyed when people post on here about stuff they've read on the internet without any experience of the schools. I know there are vocal people out there who've had bad experiences of Steiner, and therefore slate the entire system, but we don't slate the entire state system because of failings in individual schools or with individual teachers. I'm sure there are bad Steiner schools and teachers out there, just as I am very definite there are bad state schools and teachers. Our experience of Steiner is that it is an extremely good system which aims to turn out well-rounded human beings, regardless of their academic ability. I have always been extremely impressed with the pupils in the upper years at DD's school - that's why I chose it.

11% of pupils go on to Oxbridge? Once again- really?

Yes really.

Or maybe I'm just plucking figures out of thin air to wind you up??

Which of these is the more likely scenario? I have tried to PM you with further details but I think you have that setting switched off?

Is it really hard for you to believe that there might be a good Steiner school out there?

I'm sorry to behave like a schools inspector, but if it's the school I think it is, then 56% got the 5 A*-C last year(from a cohort of 25.) It was 22% last year. And pupils do an average of 6 GCSEs.

The 11% to Oxbridge is over the last 5 years. So still impressive- but less so than on first glance.

Figures from the DfEs league tables. Oxbridge info from the school website.

OP - I am considering this for my DS1, who has anxiety issues and can't cope with mainstream state secondary. The anthroposophy / cult stuff really unsettles me, but it is the only school we have visited that I can see him coping with (small classes, relaxed atmosphere, lots of hands-on, kinaesthetic learning). We know of several children there who hated mainstream and are very happy at this school. The school is open about the fact that the emphasis is on development of the person as a whole, not on academic results, so children don't come out with reams of GCSEs. However, they also don't have to cope with the associated pressure of exams and can still go on to sixth form college or further training.

I wouldn't go near it due to the underlying beliefs. Even if they aren't obvious at first.

And not bring clear and upfront about the incarnation and bullying stuff makes it worse.

Also from DfE website:
73% of boys achieving grades A*-C in both English and mathematics GCSEs
100% of girls achieving grades A*-C in both English and mathematics GCSEs

I'm Assuming its Elmfield. From looking at the website and the approach to education I think it looks brilliant - however I still wouldn't touch Snything to do with Steuner with a barge pole as I'd be too afraid someone somewhere would take the anthroposophy too far.