Reading books order after The Storm ORT?

[Iamnotminterested]

Just that. Floppy has found the key and friend wants to know which books come next; I can't remember (or have I erased them from my memory?)

[Periwinkle007]

I can see what you mean and I think we used abacuses briefly at school but I think what I find frustrating is that she now thinks you can't DO such a thing as work it out in your head.

I can understand having to learn to do it with basic stuff so that they can then picture it with harder stuff but again it is a one size fits all thing that ALL children need this when I am not entirely sure all of them do. I was always under the impression (obviously wrongly) that number lines etc were to help until they could do it in their head but if they can already picture it all in their head and do it like that how do we know that they need to learn how to do it again and then have to teach them to do it in their heads all over again when they already could. mind I am from a family of mathematicians so perhaps I just wrongly assumed she had an ability with numbers.

[learnandsay]

There's nothing wrong with the number lines and squares any more than there is wrong with scales, rulers, or any other measuring tool. But you have to know how to read it. It's the teacher's job to "teach" the child how to read the tools. That's the whole point of having them in the classroom in the first place. The teacher is not supposed to shove the tool in the child's face and say here use that. There are a few concepts that the child has to be aware of before the tool will make sense to her. To be honest, if the teacher doesn't know these things then she's not a very good teacher. Are you sure that's what the teacher is doing? It sounds a bit odd.

[Periwinkle007]

no sorry I am not being clear - she gets it right either way but it is just this thing that she now thinks you CAN'T possibly do it in your head. This started in preschool when she suddenly started talking about a counting nose ? and now she assumes that you HAVE to use an aide of some sort which I find frustrating. I think she is very conscientious and always does what she is told (outside of the house anyway) so whereas another child would just think 'stuff this the answer is 7' and not worry about counting it she now takes the time to count backwards or whatever it is. She still says number work at school is too easy so it obviously isn't an issue as such but I find it sad that a child who could do this in her head now thinks mental arithmetic isn't possible or that she can't do it in her head. sorry - mountain out of molehill I know.

[simpson]

It was kind of like this for reading with DD.

She could read fluently when she started reception (at the level she was on, not chapter books or anything but did not need to sound out words really) but having worked with kids in a group who were just blending and hearing the teacher telling them to "sound it out" she thought she had to go back to sounding out every word...

Luckily she soon got bored of that idea

Numeracy wise she is pretty bang on where she should be I think and has only just got the hang of doing say 15 + 3 and not counting from 1 to get the answer. She can use a number line by herself for addition but we have not tried subtraction yet.

She is nowhere near ready to be learning tens and units and using a number square and tbh I am going to leave it to someone who knows what they are doing (ie not me!!)

[Periwinkle007]

oh gosh yes - I wouldn't get involved with number squares or anything. her school use some sort of arch or rainbow or something apparently anyway so I have NO IDEA with that.

[learnandsay]

I guess it only becomes an issue if the child is falling behind even when the teacher is explaining how to do it.

[Periwinkle007]

true Learnandsay.

[simpson]

Hopefully if they are being taught/shown correctly it won't be an issue.

I have never once shown DS how to use a number line, number square and he is doing ok.

However I accept it is not the same for all kids

[learnandsay]

Isn't that the type of thing Ferguson was saying, there are some kids who can't keep up. It would be nice if kids just had to get shown how and they could do it.

[simpson]

There are bound to be as each child is different and might learn things in different ways.

DS is very good at numeracy but likes numbers and facts, he is not particularly visual so finds lines of symmetry tougher.

[learnandsay]

Maybe it's not such a problem with a detail here and a technique there but you do hear the occasional post saying my child is x years behind his cohort. Sometimes there is an accompanying explanation or medical condition but sometimes there isn't.

[learnandsay]

I'm willing to bet there are parents out there whose child is x years behind his cohort with no explanation and they won't (or can't) post on free websites asking for help and advice.

[mrz]

IMHE parents whose child is struggling for no apparent reason often post on anonymous websites asking for help because they have nowhere to turn.

[learnandsay]

If they do I think that's brilliant. But Ferguson's post said quite a few heartbreaking things. And one of them was he put notes in the bookbag that went unread because "mum doesn't read so well." It's headbreaking to conceive that a child's education can be stumped because of its parents'/'s education(s) The two should not be linked but I guess there is no way of unlinking them. I guess if school can't unlink them then no one can. (I guess this is why the ofstead free school meals progress plan is doomed to fail.)

[mrz]

I've put notes in book bags that went unread too. The mum who left her son at the childminders because she needed to go to the gym or spa after work because that was her "me time" so when she picked him up she didn't have time to hear him read or even talk to him ...I actually find this more heartbreaking.

[simpson]

There are quite a few parents at my DC school who do not support their child at home for whatever reason.

Likewise there are quite a few parents I am sure (not necessarily at my DC school) who want advice in order to help their child who may be behind and do post on forums as they don't get the support from the teacher.

Just because a child finds academic work tough does not mean they have unsupportive parents.

However since commencing reading in my DC school there are a few heart breaking cases

[learnandsay]

I'm so glad I'm not a teacher. I'd be had up for assaulting certain parents on such regular occasions that I'd never have any time to do any teaching.

[simpson]

Yes mrz there are parents who cannot listen to their kids read as they don't speak English well enough, kids who are in care, kids who are one of 6 or 7 so the parents don't have time to help their child (and ignore letters home). Also the child who has a full time nanny when their mother is a SAHM.

[mrz]

I agree simpson. Ferguson's post gave a very simplistic view of things.

[simpson]

Forgot to mention the kids who have not had breakfast and the kids who fall asleep in class because they have been up playing computer games/watching tv till 2am (this is primary school).

[simpson]

Can you tell I have just written my module on this for an NVQ level 3 TA course??!?

[mrz]

and the computer games are rated 18...or the 7 year old who has been watching porn all night ...or the ones kept awake when the police raided the home looking for drugs or ....

[learnandsay]

The lack of ability to speak English is a fair enough point. If you can't speak English what can you do? (learn) I know Asian parents who do just that. But it's the hard way of going about it. I read to and listen to my child reading in German though my German is all but non existent. There is a fine line between unable to listen and unwilling to listen. But the line does exist.

[learnandsay]

Oh, for christ's sake, girls! You just have to be talking about a tiny minority, pleaeaease!

[mrz]

regardless they are all expected to reach the same level at the same point in time.