Yr 1 Phonics test - what if your child can already read?

[MayaAngelCool]

Can we have them exempted from the test? From what I gather, such a child is likely to fail the test as it includes lots of 'fake' words written phonetically. Children who can read well are thought to be likely to try to guess what real word these words are similar to, rather than saying what they actually are, and thus fail the test.

The Pearson Phonic Test information conveniently avoids saying anything about this problem. Anyone know?

[DroughtMyArse]

So basically...they are testing the teachers.

The is such an inherent distrust in our profession to act professionally and do the things we are required to do (such as teach phonics) without being formally examined by the government through another test I find it really depressing.

I teach phonics, I try to do it in fun, interesting ways but honestly being placed under the microscope again, never mind the pant wetting fear induced by the possibility of a no notice ofsted inspection at any moment, does not make me a better teacher. A more anxious, stress teacher yes but better, no.

[Feenie]

But DroughtMyArse, how else can they find out which schools are failing?

[rabbitstew]

I thought they knew which schools were failing?

[Feenie]

But looking at the teaching of reading will find out why and much earlier.

[rabbitstew]

Well clearly it won't find out why unless you already know the reason why and the test is there to prove a foregone conclusion.

[DroughtMyArse]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean no testing at all. Year two and year 6 SATS are good marker posts (although schools seem to make such a big deal about year 6 SATS and nearly always the year six children lose a lot motivation when they are done) but now year one tests, what next?

I don't want to be a doom and gloom teacher. I enjoy my job, work really hard for pretty crap (in comparison to other professions requiring the same level of qualification and constant development) pay. Does the government test nurses, doctors, fireman, binmen, civil servants in this way? No. They self regulate, employ managers who run their own teams professionally and in order to get the best results possible. They are not tested and criticised like the teaching profession. I see how hard my colleagues work, how they go the extra mile for the children they teach and it makes me frustrated that this is rarely recognised.

Wow! I feel better having got that of my chest

[maizieD]

I'm sorry to appear to be unsympathetic, DMA, but, despite all the testing which has been introduced over the last couple of decades, a good 20% of children are still reaching KS3 with inadequate reading skills. Yet we know, from data from schools which have done it, that it entirely possible to reduce that percentage to around 5%, if not lower, (and it is not just leafy suburb schools with middle class intakes).

The one thing that hasn't been tested in all this time is the very basic skill which underpins all other reading skills, the use of phonic knowledge and decoding and blending to work out what the words 'say'. Whatever the historic and ideological reasons for this omission in the past we now have a Minister for Schools who is determined to improve literacy rates and the place to start is with the initial teaching of reading. Consequently these skills now have to be tested just as everything else is, and tested early enough to prevent children falling too far behind.

It might have made more sense to have done away with the KS1 English NCTs at the same time and allow the higher order reading skills to develop in a more leisurely and natural fashion, but if teachers won't adopt evidence based practice voluntarily (which, incidentally, is just what the other professionals you named do do) I can't see the govt having any option other than add in an extra 'test'. Or sit back and let everything chug along on the same old way.

Anyway, teachers aren't the only people being targeted. There is a lot of pressure being put on the Teacher Training institutions to include proper training for teaching reading.

[maizieD]

...is just what the other professionals you named do do Er...I'm not too sure about the binmen...or the civil servants...

[IndigoBell]

DMA - nobody is doubting teachers don't work hard and care and try hard.

That's not the same as being effective!

Or the same as knowing how to do your job!

Most of The teachers I have encountered, at 3 schools, are incredibly defensive.

Just this week the HT suggested I might want to take DD out of her school - all because I (once again) pointed out I was worried that DD (Y4) can't read yet, and asked what her teacher was going to do about it

No way was that an acceptable way for the HT to speak to me.

Do you teach all your kids to read - or do you teach all of them besides the ones with dyslexia, SEN, EAL, LAC........

I know my school only teaches the 80% that are easy to teach. And I know they also think they're doing a brilliant job and Gove / OFSTED measuring them is the problem.

The school I'm a governor for / my 3 go to is so unselfcritical it's unreal.

They will never take a critical look at what they're doing and learn from their mistakes.

Which, as a professional in a diff profession, I can't believe.

My team at work has a meeting every 2 weeks where we look at what we did wrong in the last 2 weeks and how we can improve our practice.

As a governor I have sat in a school improvement meeting - and never once did they ask what went badly last year!

And, when I specifically ask that question, in private, of the literacy co-ordinator - she still can't answer it. .

How can they improve if they won't learn from their mistakes?

But the whole culture of teaching is praise centred and not critical.

Unbelievable.

[mrz]

Boffin mum perhaps you can explain why pseudo words form part of the battery of tests commonly used by educational psychologists and neuro scientists internationally to identify children? with reading difficulties

[mrz]

Yes BoffinMum as a teacher I had read the publications you linked to and perhaps you can explain how they support your opinion that good readers will struggle with pseudo word reading

[QueenEdith]

Following on from an earlier post: I simply wouldn't go to a doctor who regularly left 20% of his patients incapacitated, no matter how friendly, dedicated or hardworking. I (and everyone else, I suspect) would seek out ones with success rates of 100% or close to that.

But I agree a phonics test is of 'limited' validity - that's the whole point, in order to test a skill sine qua non.

[IndigoBell]

The worst of it all as that no-one takes responsibility for teaching a child to read.

If a child can't read - it's never the teacher's fault :(

It's

• all children develop at different rates
  
• not enough practice at home
  
• you're an over anxious mum
  
• you're stressed
  
• she's stressed
  
• she has dyslexia
  
• etc, etc, (EAL, Other SEN....)
  
  It's never ever 'I didn't use an effective method to teach her'
  
  And then once you get to the juniors it's even worse.
  
  It's not the teacher's fault - they're not even expected to teach reading. (Oh, and they're 'generalists' not specialist reading teachers )
  
  It's not the TAs fault (who does the teaching) - because they were following the program.
  
  It's not the SENCOs fault - she advised a suitable program.
  
  It's not the HTs fault - all her staff are brilliant.
  
  Noone will take responsibility :(

[IndigoBell]

Hopefully this Y1 check will make Y1 teachers take responsibility for teaching their kids the basic building blocks of reading.....

They have never been made responsible for this before.

[rabbitstew]

I have to say, I don't have a problem with the test - I would fall off my chair in absolute amazement if my children couldn't read nonsense words.

[rabbitstew]

Mind you, I would rather the teachers checked children's understanding of all the phonics teaching at the end of the process, rather than ensuring they pass a test in year 1 and then relaxing and not bothering about how well the rest of it sinks in.

[IndigoBell]

rabbit - But in Y2 they do have a reading test.....

[snowball3]

I don't think there's any reason why teachers WOULD have the problem with the test. Just so long as they are teaching that words are built up of sounds and how to break down and sound out words, how to blend the sounds back together again, how different sounds can be written in different ways, (indeed how the same sounds can be written in different ways), all pretty basic stuff that a teacher and a child should be able to manage. So what's all the fuss

[christinecagney]

Indigo- I sympathise... There are lots of teachers with the attitudes you describe and it's just awful. I am a primary HT and everyone at our school knows that I don't care what else drops off the curriculum children must learn to read fluently as soon as possible as it has the greatest effect on self esteem, access to the rest of the curriculum, and life chances. Sadly I had to argue this point with LA at times < bangs head on desk repeatedly>. It's their absolute birthright to read well and early.

With regard to Goswami's research ..her onset and rime method was used for years and wasn't very effective hence the move to SP.

Debbiehep- hello! Worked with you years ago if I am guessing correctly who you are!

[mrz]

rabbitstew many good schools check children's understanding of phonics at every step (we do termly assessments from reception to Y6) and IMHO there wouldn't be a need for a national test if schools were following a similar assessment process.

[christinecagney]

Absolutely mrz. Can't understand why they don't. Mastery of reading, writing and spelling has biggest effect on self esteem and future learning. Masses of US research from very deprived and disaffected communities on this...is a vast predictor of future attainment and life chances.

[mrz]

BoffinMum since you are interested in neuro work perhaps you have read

dyslexia.yale.edu/current_directions_in_psych_science_2006.pdf

A common goal of functional imaging studies of reading is to activate those neural systems used in phonological analysis; to accomplish this, one of the most useful tasks asks subjects to determine if two pseudowords rhyme?for example, ??lete?? and ??jeat?? (which do rhyme) or ??mobe?? and ??haib?? (which do not). Since pseudowords are novel and could neither have been seen before nor memorized, subjects must use phonologic analysis to perform the task.

[IndigoBell]

Christine - do you achieve your goal? Do you teach all children to read?

[christinecagney]

Yes, pretty much, but not always as fast as I'd like nor as securely. Sometimes can get excellent decoding for all but struggle to get finer bits of inference secured for some... Always trying though, will try anything if there's evidence that it might work .

[IndigoBell]

Right. I'm ringing the LEA on Mon to see if any other school has places.....

(probably won't though. Starting to enter the high birth rate years)

I've been fobbed off far too long. By 2 different schools. :( :( :(