My son's behaviour at school disappoints and embarasses me, and makes me feel guilty

[MerryMarigold]

I feel completely in at the deep end here. He is my first child, so I'm learning about school, as well as kids in general and him specifically. He's in Yr 1 and we had a hard year last year. He found it very hard socially, academically and behaviourally. He got quite stressed and so did I. I thought it may be the teacher, but this year the teacher is great and we have the same issues, so...it is him. And it is me. What can I do to help him? I want it to change this year.

Let me give you some facts.

• He can't sit still at carpet time
  
• He's often missing playtime as a punishment (for fighting or not finishing work)
  
• He finds it hard to focus/ concentrate unless it is playing lego/ drawing
  
• He messes about a lot - silly behaviour
  
• His behaviour at school is worse than at home and it is also worse at home during term time than in the holidays
  

It was the school assembly today and I was mortified to see him just messing about in the back row with his friend and not really joining in the song properly. The children looked so sweet singing their hearts out, but he wasn't one of them. He and his 'friend' were the ONLY 2 messing about.

Anyone have thoughts as to why his behaviour is bad? And how to correct it. At home and ant strategies school could use. We are not afraid of discipline, but it doesn't seem to work that well on him (he gets unhappy and behaves worse if gets it a lot).

It's parents' evening tomorrow. I'd like to go in with some ideas! And I will also update you on what the teacher thinks when she tells me.

[Popbiscuit]

...I thought that too. My DS can concentrate on things he WANTS to concentrate on. In fact it's very hard to get him to unlock when he's focussed on something (Lego, drawing pictures of lego, playing lego on the computer...). I'd love to know if that's not the case. His teachers have assured me that they don't think he's ADHD but it certainly feels like he is when in certain situations.

[mummytime]

ADHD stands for attention deficit hyper activity disorder. That means they have a problem with attention, which can mean attending too hard to one thing that you can't get their attention. The hyper activity can come and go, and usually does. However lots of other things can be lazily diagnosed as ADHD, which is why a proper thorough diagnosis is important.

[tabulahrasa]

I know a bit, I know there are people kicking about who know more though...

It's not as cut and dried as being hyperactive all the time, some children with ADHD can concentrate really well, on specific things, it's everything else that's the problem, lol. Sleep problems are really common - but not necessarily just not sleeping, not falling off to sleep and/or getting up early still leaves them sleep deprived, exactly the same as any other child that hasn't had enough sleep. That doesn't seem to bother some children with ADHD, it does others.

It's definitely an all the time thing in that, it doesn't come and go - but that's not to say it affects all things equally in all settings. Things can be an issue at school that aren't at home and vice versa. Obviously if he was completely fine in one setting it does rule it out, but it might not show itself in the same way.

Like I said, I don't know him, I'm absolutely not saying - oooh he's got ADHD, get yourself off to a doctor, lol. Just, have a mooch about the internet for information, see what you think - it might be you go, nope definitely not, it's just something to consider.

[MerryMarigold]

Thanks for that info tabulahrasa. I've looked into a few things on the internet like dyspraxia and dyslexia. He may be dyspraxic. It is hard to figure it out. I will look into this too, as far as the internet can educate me! The over focus on one thing is definitely him. It's so hard to get him to get dressed in the morning, and he can get totally focussed on drawing/ lego. Popbiscuit: let's compare notes. Yr 3 seems like a long way away. He will also start a new school (Juniors) in Yr 3. So far the teachers seem to think he is within the range of 'normal' (well last year's one did, this one hasn't commented yet)...

So parents' evening update.

We spent 10mins talking about his 'targets' and how to help him with that. She really is a good teacher and is v focussed on him making progressed academically, which he has already done this year. Gave me some good tips to help with his reading, and learning the key words he is supposed to learn. She didn't bring up behaviour.

I talked about his behaviour and the issue with his 'friend'. She said his behaviour is ok, though he is 'very young' and 'like a puppy' (despite having a Nov bday). He wriggles a lot and can't face in one direction. She did say that he's not naughty, just 'young', which reassured me. I gave her the opportunity to 'label' him by saying that compared to my other son, I don't think he is normal, but she didn't say anything. I didn't ask outright. I also said "But he is very sweet" and she said, "Yes, I would definitely agree with that." I'm glad she sees that side to him as it can be hard when he is wriggling/ bouncing/ messing about.

The issue with the 'friend', she just seemed to have a lot of compassion and totally understood how he wants to impress this boy and how he loves him, but she didn't really comment on how to solve the problem (is there a solution?). I think she's a very thoughtful woman and wouldn't jump in with opinions quickly.

I'm glad I'm a SAHM as I would like to have a catch up with her in a couple of weeks about how it's going with the 'friend'.

In the meantime I do need more structure, and to find more time/ energy to help him work on a daily basis, whether it be a bit of reading or writing. I've seen so much growth in him this half term, I'm sure we can keep it up.

[MerryMarigold]

mummytime, where and how do you get a good diagnosis?

[tabulahrasa]

Like a sweet but overfriendly puppy - is exactly how I have described a young child with ADHD before, lol. (Just mentioning that because it amused me)

He could well just need a bit of time to mature as well - school involves doing lots of things that don't really suit young children and some take to it quicker than others (sitting still and quiet for instance).

Structure and time are always good - whether there's an underlying issue or not

[Catsdontcare]

I would ask for an assessment tbh he sounds very very similar to my ds who is only four and not yet at school but exhibits everything your ds seems to ( I often think of my ds as being a bit puppy like!)

we are going through the assessment process right now so have yet to know if ds has any SN, but I must admit reading your post was like reading everything I am worrying about for ds when he starts school, which is why I have pushed so hard for referrals.

I don't think your son is badly behaved but I do think he needs some input. Actually I feel a little sad for him seeing that he is being kept in at playtime

[MerryMarigold]

cats, where do you start with getting an assessment? Did you go to GP? Or through school?

[mrslaughan]

How old is he? 5-6? Before all the internet Dr's diagnose him with ADHD, remember that it is actually not recommended that children are assessed for this until 7-8yrs....that does not mean that you should ignore the behaviors, you should work for strategies to manage them with his teachers. and before I get screamed at about this, I know that children are being assessed earlier and earlier, but many who work in this area do not agree with it.
You could try an Omega 3 and 6 supplement (I think that is the right numbers) - look up the Oxford Durham study and Adelaide study - the results are quite staggering.
Look at his diet for e numbers etc.

and there is also a fantastic book, that I think all mothers of boys should read "the way of boys" by Anthony Rao - it is a good place to start about educating yourself about boys and the education system (esp little boys) and will give you info to have constructive conversations with your DS's teacher

[Catsdontcare]

Started off with the HV, who made a referall to paediatrician. I'm guessing your DS is to old nopw to have a Health Visitor so I would see your GP and insist on a referal. I'm not sure how the process works once they are in school but I know that it is slow which is why I have been pushing hard for the last year in hopes that we are all set before ds starts school.

I see your point mrslaughan about not diagnosing too early and actually I don't think ds will come back with a diagnosis of adhd however his attention and listening skills are very delayed and I want that recognised so he is not labelled as naughty and his needs can be addressed.

[hellymelly]

I think he sounds ...normal! There seem to be huge expectations on very small boys at school to behave well and to concentrate but a lot of them find it hard.My very bright DH was baffled by primary school, he just wanted to do his own thing and play.Took him until high school to really fly academically.My friends son,who is now on the G+T reg at his new school,doing really well with lots of friends, was very very naughty in year one and the school started to suggest that he had some SN.In fact he was just super bright,bored,and not ready for the strictures of school. They changed his school, and he was much happier and all the naughty behaviour at school was gone. I have a very sensitive DD who was miserable and shocked by school in year one (scared of her rather strict teacher and all sorts of other things).She is much happier in her new school in year 2 but still finds some things difficult and I agree that the fact I am easy going at home has made the rules of school hard to take.(she isn't naughty at all at school but does the opposite and gets hyper-anxious about all the rules). I would cut him some slack,give him as much fuss,love and one-to-one time that you can,and try and read him some stories about following rules at school and why it matters,friendships etc.I saw some things on Amazon earlier while I was looking at books to help with anxiety for DD. I also agree with the poster who said follow your gut instincts. He is your little boy and you know him best, so listen to the teacher but don't take as gospel things that seem wrong to you.

[mummytime]

If it is anything except dyslexia, then you want to go through your GP. However I would also try: no screen time before school, walk to school (at least some of the way), lots of exercise, and fish oils. Also watch the diet, I was surprised to realise Orange Juice can be a bad thing (and was for my son).

[MerryMarigold]

Thanks all. Loads of good advice here. No screentime before school - I can do that (most of the time he just plays lego anyway!). We do walk to school, but it's only about 7 mins. Physical exercise...hmmm not easy in Winter, not sure what to do about that one (we are going to a softplay tomorrow thanks to Guru Nanak's bday and a day off school!).

Helly, my gut instinct is that he is not normal! I can see in my younger ds that he will find it hard to concentrate and sit still to some extent, but they way ds2 learns and interracts with people is totally different from ds1. The more I talk about rules etc. at school, the more anxious I think ds1 will become. Ds1 is like his little sister (ds2's twin) so if I crack it for him it will go a long way to helping her. At least she's a girl which goes in her favour as far as school is concerned.

Mrslaughan. Thanks for the book recommendation. Yes, ds1 is 5-6. I will see how we go this year for a while longer, before pushing it. If the anxiety and social side of things don't improve then I think I will need to go to the GP, because he's been a bit anxious at school for a year now (some times worse than others).

[Catsdontcare]

Merrygold I would suggest a chat with your gp now rather than later on in the year as the system moves soooooooo slowly with this sort of thing. Chances are it could be another 6 months or a year before he was seen by a peaditrician anyway so if in that time you see an improvement and don't think he needs further input then you haven't lost anything.

We are a year down the line and still waiting for an assessment and everyone we've seen has agreed that he needs it so it's not like I'm having to fight for it. It's a rather long waiting game!

[oldmum42]

"My gut instinct is that he is not normal", he "interacts with people totally differently".

You are his mum and know him better than anyone. Listen to your instinct, if your DS has SN of some kind, the sooner you have a dx, the sooner he can access help.

Asperger's ? Many of the same ticklist of traits as ADHD. Your DS sounds VERY like my DS3 at that age - he is a very clever, academic boy with Asperger, and already had that diagnosis at age 4 - he's 14 now.

Your description of your DS in school assembly made me laugh in recognition, at EVERY assembly, school play etc, my DS was the same - and always sat with in arms length of the teacher, lest he roll him self across the stage, or peak under the curtain etc. Sitting your DS beside a child who was likely to set off his behaviour was a bit stupid of the school. Regardless of what diagnosis (or none), the school needs to be working with your DS strengths, to support his weaknesses, for the benefit of all in the class.

At that age - primary school DS3 has a number of coping strategies initiated by the school (or the specialists who came into the school)- he had a "special" carpet square to sit on (he could move a bit, but had to stay on the square). He also had a ball of blu tack which he was allowed to have during assemblies, circle time, to squeeze (helped him stay still).

Breaktime and running around outside is really important for your DS, the school need to implement some other punishment. It used to sour my DS3 behaviour all day if he was kept in - and it never occurred to his teacher that as it was incredibly hard for him to sit down at a desk and stay there, he really, really needed to get outside and run around at break.

Star-charts at school, and at home, a home book (with details of any positive/negative events each day), can all be useful.

[becstarsky]

I think it's brilliant that you are facing the problem, and wanting to listen to the teacher and sort it out rather than doing the 'oh, he's just like that' 'oh, he's just misunderstood' thing. And good that you've seen that the time for 'This too shall pass' has... passed. You are a good mum. The friend who told you that they settle down in Y3 - I'm not sure that's good advice. Because by then your kid has been labelled as the class troublemaker. Personally I'm a huge fan of "Every Parent" by Matthew R. Sanders - it's my parenting bible. Lots of sticker charts, lots of praise, no threats, clear and fair sanctions for misbehaviour.

How much sport does he do outside of school? I know he's only little, but I think some kids need masses of sport like oxygen - to take away some of that nervous energy and competitive drive and give them a sense of achievement through training and discipline. Also after school sport gives them more practice on taking turns, listening etc. as well as making some new friendships. Also boys seem to learn more than just sport from their coach, it's like an extra male role model.

Definitely don't encourage friendship with the friend he was messing about with - he doesn't sound like a good influence and it sounds like he's not being nice to your DS at all. You sound very sensible on that point. Good luck, you're obviously trying really hard to do the right thing.

[Popbiscuit]

Bec, it was actually me that had the anecdote about the friend. She's a teacher at my DSs school and was trying to be empathetic, I think, as she has quite an active boy too. Good point about being labelled as the 'troublemaker'. that's my worst fear . The challenge that we have is that the other boys just idolize him (reinforcing his behaviour) because he's entertaining and good at making up games and so on but I'm not sure the other mothers would see it that way as his silliness distracts their children in the line-up to go into school in the morning and I'm sure he causes similar "confusion and delay" in assemblies and so on, throughout the day.

YY to the sport. We've put our DS in gymnastics which he absolutely adores and is a good outlet for his need to constantly climb and jump off-of things. He knows that it's the correct place for those activities as long as he follows the rules. I also try to make my children walk to school, rain or shine (mean mother) which does take the edge off a little-bit, I think. Not looking forward to winter as it gets really cold and snowy here so sidewalks are sometimes impassable.

Merry, it's interesting what you said about the comparison between your sons. I have a second DS (and an older daughter) as well and it's like night and day. They are so different to DS1 in temperament that I really feel like DS1 is "abnormal" but perhaps it's just a difference in temperament? Just don't know. It sounds like your son's teacher is supportive, anyway, and a good sounding-board for bouncing ideas around about how best to support your son.
Thanks for starting the thread; I was thinking about how to word one just like yours so I'm learning lots from all the people that have replied.

[MerryMarigold]

Popbiscuit. The weird thing is that my dd (ds2's twin) is very, very similar to ds1. She doesn't have quite the physical levels of energy, but similar levels (if not more) of emotional energy/ excitability/ intensity/ absorption in mundane tasks as well as similar ways of responding to me: have to ask her a million times to put her shoes on and similar ways of learning: ie. really slowly! I think it will help her in school to be a girl as sitting still may be easier, but I don't think she's going to take to reading/ writing etc. very easily. It'll be so interesting to see. One example in the difference in my twins is that ds2 took 4 days to potty train, she has taken more than 4 months and still has several accidents daily so is perhaps just 'not ready' despite being past 3 yrs old. Didn't train ds1 till he was 3.4 and it took several months for him too - though to be fair, he's quicker than she is being!!! I think I am realising the more contact I have with other children, that they are both a bit 'unusual' (wouldn't go as far as abnormal) and develop more slowly, although in terms of walking and speaking they were about normal.

Becstarsky, agree with the sport. The difficulty is he can be very tired after school and at weekends. We tried football and he actually enjoyed the practise part of it, but hated the games (never got to actually see a ball!). It's been a year so maybe time to resurrect something like that. Maybe rugby this time.

oldmum, I did look up Asperger's and some of it sounds so very much like him. But one key trait is missing: he's very 'in tune' with other's feelings and very empathetic - almost more than he is with himself. He runs out of the room if he's seen a programme before and he knows that someone's going to get into trouble. He can't watch things like Dr Who, actually asked me to turn it off the one time we tried as it's too 'scary'.

[TheRhubarb]

Your school will have a parent support advisor, can I strongly suggest that you approach him/her?

Your PSA may suggest something called Triple P which is a parenting course for parents who are struggling with the behaviour of their children. It is not a course that assumes blame or which patronises the parents, but it gives you very useful tips such as focusing on good behaviour because as parents, we tend to take good behaviour for granted sometimes and focus merely on the bad. Count the number of times you criticise or tell off your child compared to how many times you praise them.

If your child has ADHD or anything like that, the PSA can access the right support for you and will be able to fight your corner if necessary.

HTH

[MerryMarigold]

I've done the Triple P! Are you in Newham Rhubarb? I don't think every borough has it.

[Cathycomehome]

Hi - hope everything settles down and your son will just mature and settle down naturally (seen that loads of times with kids I've taught, honestly),but my son was diagnosed with adhd at end of year five, and medicated since then, and is a different child. Never did I think I'd see the day that I was told at parents' evening (year 7) that he was engaged, focused and charming, as well as being "impeccably behaved". Result! So even if there IS an underlying issue, which there might well not be, there is definitely hope.

[dairyfairy]

OP- Your son's only problem is that he is a 5 yr old boy!!
Fidgeting , fighting not sitting still, not focussing on work are not at all uncommon at this age. Please don't worry too much!

[IndigoBell]

DairyFairy - you can't possibly know that that is his only problem.

He may or may not have a problem like ADHD. Nobody can tell on an internet forum. Nobody is saying he does have ADHD - just that he might. Why is it not OK to say he has ADHD - but OK to say he doesn't?

If he does have a problem it's far better to start to help and address it at 5 than at 10.

Platitudes aren't supportive or helpful.

[MerryMarigold]

I hope you're right dairy. I spent most of last year thinking it was that. But he does seem to be in a bit of different league (like all the kids including the immature ones, and the naughty ones, managing to put on a fantastic performance in assembly. This is the only time I have seen him in a class context).

[MerryMarigold]

Wow Cathy that's amazing. Did the school not pick it up earlier? What's your 'story'? Please share...