Worried about 2-night camping trip

[PastSellByDate]

Our dd brought home a letter from the school about a proposed 2-night trip at an outdoor adventure centre. The school said they'd have a meeting for parents - but this was in fact held in front of our children. The trip will cost £130 and involves 2 nights staying away from home.

The teacher organising this trip had prepared an extremely glossy video about the previous year's trip and got all the school children excited about the prospect of this camping trip next year. However, the school never approached us parents first about our support for such an expensive trip - nor did they seek our permission about offering a field trip which involves 2 nights staying away from home. The teacher said that the children would not be allowed contact with home during the 3 days they're away.

Our DD is very interested in going - but we're unsure. Although I'm sure the kids would have a great time, and we know they have done this trip at this centre before, I can't help feel that 8 is a bit young for 2 nights away from home.

Am I just being an old fuddy-duddy? Do other schools do this kind of thing in the first weeks of Y4?

[BadBagel]

It sounds to me like you are clutching straws in finding reasons why your DD shouldn't go on this trip. Ofcourse a school would contact you if your DD had to be taken to the hospital, or had fallen ill or was misbehaving. If you honestly think they wouldn't then I agree with Cordova and you should take your child out of that school!

Your DD wants to go, she is ready for it. You are not and that is what you have to address.

[Cordova]

OP if you're worried that they don't take care when children are injured, it's not the trip that's the problem - I wouldn't keep my child in the school!

[Cordova]

my experience is that this is normal fror primary schools - all three schools the DSs have been have done approximately the same, and I did when I was at school. Kids are resilient if you let them be

[seeker]

I find it really hard to believe that if your child was taken to hospital you wouldn;t be called - are you sure about that?

[Acanthus]

I think we all worry when they go, but I also think all the risks you have mentioned are pretty minimal. My two have been away four times and I always worry, but I think you should let them go. You have to let them be independent. You have to start somewhere. One of mine was homesick on the first night but he slept ok and enjoyed the trip otherwise. The other struggles with lack of sleep. But on balance, it's better for them that they go.

[muddyangels123]

My DD9, has been on a few Brownie camps/pack holidays, since she was 7.
Anything from 2 nights to a week.

I agree with spanieleyes, it's all about experiencing new things. Making them more independent.

[spanieleyes]

Well don't send her then! Residential trips are not compulsory or part of the curriculum. They are run by schools ( and staff who, by the way give up theirown time to accompany the children, often having to leave their own at home!) to broaden the horizons of children who otherwise might never get to experience either time away from or to participate in the range of activities available. But if you don't trust the staff to look after your child, just say no!

[PastSellByDate]

Dear BoattaBolivia:

See this is just it. We've been told even in such an instance as falling off a bunk and going to hospital - there's no telephoning parents.

Past parent volunteer (a father) on trip with same teacher went off alone with 4 girls. Several complaints are known to have been made to the governors but parents do not know what was done regarding this - however no parents on this trip at all.

If this were a series of expensive day trips I'd feel so much better about all of this - it's leaving my child in the care of someone I'm deeply uncertain about that I find so unsettling.

[BoattoBolivia]

I can see your issue now. I can understand why you have reservations about the staff involved. The issue over which teachers are going is a tricky one, as we don't always know long in advance- depends on who is in that year group and what home issues they have. So we can't always tell parents which staff are going long in advance, but would hope all our staff would be trusted enough.
Have they asked for any parent volunteers? I know some schools do. Personally I'm not keen, as it can put a dampener on that child's trip, depending on the parent, but in this instance, it might be a compromise.

You need to know if there are more staff going than legally necessary. We had an injury once- a child went to the toilet in the middle of the night and forgot they were in the top bunk! Luckily, we had a spare member of staff who went to the hospital with the child and waited for the parents to come, without disrupting the plans of the rest of the group.

Do others feel the same about the cost? Are the school aware that they may not fill all the places?

[PastSellByDate]

Dear all:

Agree there's a lot of issues to juggle here.

There's the money. Which is a lot more than previous years. Can't quite understand why cheaper options haven't been considered. Can we afford it - well yes. But it isn't a necessary expense.

This was my initial concern. Then we started talking to people at the school gate/ on the walk in and found out much more - possibly too much.

We know that children have been injured on the trip before.

The second teacher going on the trip won't be named until nearer the time - and are likely to be from the other school. They may be fine but I don't know them at all. Also not clear whether a woman will be coming or only male teachers.

The lead teacher forced a child to spend 4 hours on a seriously broken ankle - making them take part in PE and recess, including forcing them to play on equipment during recess and ordering them to 'stop moaning'. I'm sure the parents of the child, who have told me about this recently, are correct in thinking this was just a terrible mistake - but we can't help worrying about the attitude of the teacher concerned.

Not particulary worried about my child's safety - she's fit and a good climber - but this isn't sending my child off with trusted friends/ family - this is sending my child off with a person I have reservations about. Slightly different can of worms and made worse by paying £130 for the privelege.

[Blu]

The dislocation incident is disturbing.
I would add "who are the trained first aiders on the trip?"
They will have to do detailed risk assessments of everything.
If a child was really poorly, they would contact you, and if she was miserable she would be allowed to speak to you - the 'no contact' is for general day to day normal stuff.
£130 is a lot to find - in our school the PTA fundraise like mad partly to subsidise the 4 night school journey (which is about £130 for the 4 nights, Isle of Wight), and I think families that really can't find the money get extra help. It's worth asking, if the money is an issue.
These trips give kids huge confidence.

[Pictish]

Our school did a 2 night residential trip in p4 - the kids had a ball. Ds1 is in p5 now and last weekend they were away for 2 nights again....they all loved it!

Don't understand your problem about your dd being away for 2 nights....but then I'm a 'off you go and have fun' type of parent - my son started going to France for a fortnight's holiday with his Grandpa when he was 3.

I do have to say though....£130 is steep!! Our trip cost £40!

[seeker]

5 think you're mixing up lots of issues here. It is a lot of money - not getting away from that - and if you can't afford it or don't want to spend the money then that's perfectly understandable and you are completely reasonable to say "No".

However, you are bringing up a lot of other concerns about the trip - the possibility of scraped knees, the possibility of your child falling ill, you not liking a teacher involved - which don't seem to me to be valid. Most children have a brilliant time going away with theri school friends - and it sounds as if yours wants to go. I would grit my teeth and let her go if I were you. Find something very interesting and absorbing to do while she's away!

[PastSellByDate]

I do get your message Seeker that it is unlikely anything serious would come to pass. This trip has run in the past and talking with kids most have enjoyed it. Kids have been sick/ injured but nobody has died.

It's a lot to pay for something that isn't necessary in terms of broadening horizons (DD has been camping/ outdoor adventures/ walking/ tree climbing/ rock climbing/ etc... elsewhere with family/ friends - even jet skiing) & the school trip involves staff I'm not as enthusiastic about.

[seeker]

'
"We're deeply concerned that many of these activities are going to naturally result in bumps/ scrapes and on the basis of the lead teacher's behaviour in school previously we're quite certain the kids are going to get no support with that" What sort of support do you mean? At that age, I think proper "support" for a scraped knee would be "Oh dear, up you get and give it a rub, then carry on"! And why do you think your child might be ill - it's only 2 days!

[Madsometimes]

It is not exactly a camping trip, because they will be staying in dormitories. My friends school does do a camping trip (under canvas) for Y2 and Y6. I think that Y2 is probably a little young for under canvas without parents, but Y6 is fine.

My dd1 went on a school residential in Y4, and my dd2 is due to go on her first one next September (she will be in Y4). The activities tend to be run by the centre staff because they require specialist equipment and training. Their teachers are with them, but they are not in charge of the safety aspect of the activities, more the discipline/pastoral care side of things.

I suspect that in the unlikely event of a child being injured, the centre staff and classroom teacher would decide together whether a child could carry on.

[PastSellByDate]

Sorry: I missed out some of the last ones by Poyella et al.

Putting parents into an impossible decision of 3 days out of school on what what is presented as 'the trip of a lifetime' with its issues for us vs. child sitting in lower class probably not learning a lot isn't a particularly fair choice.

Maybe it's me but I really do not appreciate being boxed into a corner of making the decision because it's easier, it will please my kid (so would large quantities of chocolate and endless time playing video game I've no doubt), her friends are going, etc...

I've no doubt the trip will have its benefits - gaining a feeling of independence being the obvious one. I just query whether that can only be achieved through overnight school trips.

BoattoBolivia - think your comments about the costs of repeated trips is the crux of the issue for me and others I've been chatting to. Will pass on your thoughts about having a review of field trip expenses to the school gate crowd.

[PastSellByDate]

Dear all:

thanks so much for useful comments. We are probably going to let our DD go - she's certainly very keen and has some lovely friends that will look after her.

We're deeply concerned that many of these activities are going to naturally result in bumps/ scrapes and on the basis of the lead teacher's behaviour in school previously we're quite certain the kids are going to get no support with that. Should something more serious - a twisted ankle, a sprain, a break happen - we're not confident sensible measures will be taken (as in why don't you rest that sore ankle or let us strap that sprain up for you).

Without going into huge details - the lead teacher has forced a child with a dislocation to stop crying and attend PE and go out at recess (4 hours) before their parent was finally informed there may be a problem.

The phone thing isn't about us calling our daughter - but is about the impression that should our daughter be ill or hurt- she will not be allowed to speak with us.

[BoattoBolivia]

Glad you are thinking about it, and you are quite right to only agree if you are totally happy with the idea.
HOWEVER, as I said earlier in the thread, the trips are provisionally booked a year in advance usually- we book the dates, for the following year, when we are there. The best places are booked years in advance.
The costs are then worked out based on that number of children taking part.

YABU to expect them to be asking you all first if you want them to book it.

I totally understand how these things add up if you have more than one child in the school. Maybe you need to ask if there can be a discussion about how many trips the school are running and whether they need to be cut back.
My school did this a few years ago, when our very enthusiastic, but unrealistic, head, finally got the message that a trip every year from year 2- year 6, was not popular with parentS OR teachers! (Some staff don't like going/organising them as it is a HUUUGE commitment in time and energy for no extra money)

[seeker]

If you can afford it and if your child wants to go, there is absolutely no reason why she shouldn't. If you can't, or if she doesn;t want to, then she doesn't. Simple!

[Poppyella]

great post madwoman. I couldn't agree more!

You always have the choice to s
ay no to them going. You don't however get the choice whether the school does it or not. If a few parents didn't like the idea, and therefore the trip did not go ahead, the kids of those parents who thought it was a great opportunity would loose out on a load of FUN!

And I agree, surely by year 4, and your child has been in that school for a few years, you would have known that the school did this trip before now anyway?? No?

[madwomanintheattic]

'how this has been handled'...

erm. it's been handled in a perfectly normal satisfactory way. you'll get the same every time. parental choice can be exercised as always, (and of course they want all of the students to take part). the trips will be advertised and run in the same way in every school.

we had a mother last week who wanted the entire school to stop their fundraising lunches (sandwiches, a juice box, and a cookie, ffs) as she was concerned about the level of nitrites in the ham, and her son was being put in a difficult decision as she didn't want to feed him the awful processed rubbish, but all his friends were eating it.

she must be an mner, right?

schools have trips. lots of schools have trips in yr 4.

trips are expensive.

the joys of parenthood. either you cough up, or you say no. but you can't really moan that children are being given a wonderful opportunity just because you don't like marketing... the trip is run every year. get more involved with the school, and you'd probably have known. school governor? they are always on the look out...

[PastSellByDate]

Dear all:

Thanks for your comments and it was really useful to understand the phone thing from the point of view of the teachers running the trip.

It's also so good to hear that this is a typical thing for 8 year olds to be doing. I didn't do this kind of thing until I was over 10 - but I'm a seriously old Mum.

I'm still going to dwell of this for a bit - but it is useful to know that many feel that trips like this are of real benefit.

southofthames: I absolutely hear you about the expense - I have a younger child in the school and know that in Y5 and Y6 they go on even more expensive trips. I estimate the school will be seeking around £400 a year for field trips from us when younger DD enters KS2...that's a lot (as in hiring a cottage for a week for our family) to give up unexpectedly. And I'm afraid for someone to organise a trip I'm paying for without first asking me if I'm happy to be doing this makes me cross. But I'm trying not to allow my anger over how this has been handled colour my decision on permission for my DD to go.

[cumbria81]

I can remember trying to break my arm when I was 9 so I wouldn't have to go on the 4 night school trip to the Lake District :-( IN the end, despite a wobble or 2 when I was there, I had a great time and it really did me the world of good.

[alybalybee]

I haven't read the whole thread but I was where you are now just a few weeks ago. DS is also aged 8 and went camping, in tents, outside, with his Cub pack a few weeks ago. I had a 101 concerns mainly about him going to the loo in the middle of the night (would he or wouldn't he?), keeping track of all his stuff, he can't keep track of anything at home, repacking his rucksack, etc, etc. He's never had a night away from us before so we had no track record of how resilient he'd be. He wanted to go but was frightened/concerned about the unknown-ness of it all and he did have a bit of a wobbly just before he left but he went and was fine. He wore the same clothes for 3 days (!), came home exhausted but had great fun and can't wait to go again.

It is hard to let them go but I'm so glad I did.