Elimination communication/early potty training...?

[MoonFaceMama]

A thread on here reminded me about a documentary i'd seen about potty training tiny babies.

So i found this website... www.diaperfreebaby.org

Has any one tried this? Apparently it's common practice across most of the world. Esp where there's no/expensive disposables.

My ds1 is 13 wks so apparently a great time to start. So i guess i might as well give it a shot. He's in terrys anyway, when he's not kicking around naked. As i'm bfing i'm with him all the time. Plus it would be good to get some use out of the shower curtains i'm lumbered with after my home birth turned in to a hospital birth!

So the plan is this... When at home he can kick around on a shower curtain and old sheets/towels etc. Or he can wear a terry with no plastic pant. When i notice him wee i make the cue noise (i'm using a psh-psh-psh sort of thing). Also i note the circumstances of the wee and any signals he gives...I think this may be my failing!

Eventually i can anticipate his need to go and hold him over a potty (or something), make cue sound and by the magic power of association, he wees.

Or at least that's the theory...

Apparently he can wear a nappy rest of time as usuall...part time is fine.

So i'm not saying it will work. I'm by no means an expert... I haven't even read all of the one website i've bothered to find. But it just looks so easy (too easy perhaps)! I figure it's worth a go.

So if anyone is already doing this please tell me about it! Has it worked? Is it nonsense? I'm happy to share my experiences if anyone i interested...

Here goes...

[MoonFaceMama]

covered in wee episode 1. , !

[PrettyCandles]

U;timately if it doesn't stress you or your baby, and you feel good doing it, what do other people's opinions matter?

FWIW I completely agree with you about their bums! ds2 is still at the age where he pulls trousers and pants right down to wee standing up, doesn't bother about closing the door, and the view from the upstairs landing can be quite delicious.

[Reallytired]

I think a lot depends what you mean by bowel and bladder control. I definately think my little girl at a year old has some degree of bladder control, just like she has some degree of fine motor skills.

My daughter's fine motor skills enable to her to pick up and eat fluff off the carpet. However she cannot yet write or use cultery. Her bladder control is probably as immature as her fine motor skills.

A lot of first generation indian imigrants do EC. Apparently when my son's best friend was born, the mother in law came over from India and stayed for four and half months to help the mother with her first baby. Breastfeeding was established and the baby was potty trained.

MoonFaceMama buy your potty from a chemist run by an indian/ pakistani family and they probably won't laugh at you.

[Indycat]

Just found this thread, MoonFaceMama and it's very interesting for me. DS is now 9 months and very rarely poos in his nappy. when he was very tiny (8 weeks! as far as I remember) he would start off pooing in the nappy and only finish when I took it off. As time went on, he seemed only to poo when I took the nappy off and it has now got to the point where he'll cry or moan if he needs a poo, until I put him on the changing table and take off his nappy.

The HV seems to think I just happen to be looking when he poos and says he can't control his bowels at this age but it's pretty clear to me that he hangs on until the nappy is off. Also, he will often not poo for a whole weekend if we are away from home, it's almost as if he associates pooing with his changing table, nappy off etc...

So I too have seriously been thinking about getting a potty, but like you am a bit worried what people will say. On the other hand, I would rather he gets used to going on a potty than on the changing table with his bum in the air! Not sure about the weeing though, he is definitely not a dry overnight baby! Am off to read the nappy free website now, I shall follow this thread with interest

[MoonFaceMama]

Bought a potty this morning and no reaction...had prepared alibi though! Wish i'd thought of buying from indian/pakistani run chemist reallytired...genius! Read,i think in an ny times article, that ec's big in the chinese community too, and that their baby clothes have a split in the bum to accommodate this. (pants $1.50 from china town in states apparently!)

indycat that is fascinating! heard something similar on another thread. Sounds like you are in a much better position to begin ec than me! I say go for it! If your ds goes on his changing table at mo surely you could slip a potty under him there, away from prying eyes? My ds is v unpredictable re poos but hope this will settle down so i can catch them as they are a bugger to get out of terrys!

prettycandles is right me thinks that it doesn't matter what others think as long as it works for you and your baby. But i think maybe,indycat, like me, you want to be quite sure it does work for you and your baby befor opening your mouth too wide about it!?

Also ds certainly isn't dry through the night. He just happened to sleep through on sat for the first ever time and so was dry in the morning, as i got nappy off before he'd come round enough to wee. It was very flukey but did confirm my suspicion that if doesn't wee in his sleep. I knew he hadn't weed during a nap, but wondered if a deeper night sleep might be different iyswim, but guess not.

Now for the daftest question ever When i do, eventually catch a poo, what is the best way to get rid of it again? Any tips gratefully recieved, i'll put them in a vault till needed!

[Maveta]

good luck with this, we did a laid back form and ds was clean at 10months (except when ill) and dry from about 20/22 mths, at night too by 24 months. The most common reaction you´ll get is that you are mad and obviously have too much time, I didn´t tend to talk about it unless anyone specifically enquired. I think it makes you seem all lentil weavery which I am not in the slightest. To me it seemed logical and actually like the lazy option, we used cloth so it cut down a lot of washing. also it was fab not to scrape poo off his bum once he was clean - why at least for this you woudn´t try to get them to go in the toilet is beyond me..

I didn´t do it when he was tiny tiny, started about 6 months and didn´t do nappy free time as such, just popped him on the potty after a nappy change to assist with association and also when he made his poo face so no wet floors/furniture to deal with.

again, good luck!

[MoonFaceMama]

Thank you for sharing that Maveta, very encouraging. Think he'll prob have a nap shortly so may have first shot at a catch soon. Fingers crossed!

[Indycat]

I am pretty sure people will think I'm mad, but like you say MoonFace, if it works for us then I won't be bothered by what they think! Good idea about using the potty on the mat.

To catch poos, I used to put a few paper nappy liners under DS's bum, although it's much easier to catch them now he's on solids! (How lovely!)

[frekkles]

Hello fellow ec ers! I am summoned from tother thread. My ds is another baby who refuses to go in his nappy. He's 12 months now, been clean since 8 months or so and has recently decided that he'd rather we on the potty too, seemingly waiting for his nappy to be off to wee.

I pop him on the potty after sleeps, meals, breastfeeds and before and after we go out. He'll use the potty about 80% of the time. He's needing about 3 nappies a day just now as he's sometimes damp (never sopping wet) . Tis all very exciting!

[maygirl]

We do this too, in a similar way to maveta and coupleofkooks. Discovered it by accident with DS1 - got a potty really just to catch wees and poos as he always went whenever nappy off all over change mat. I hadn't heard of EC. Soon he was definately holding onto poos until potty time which we just did in the mornings to start. He was clean and dry and in pants at home and nursery by 19mths and at night by 28mths. Was so easy started from birth with DD, now 13 weeks old. DD does pretty much all poos on potty (for now!), she signals to me, I don't have to watch her all the time! She does a special wriggle and if feeding can't stay on and squirms about. Pop her on potty at nappy changes and say ' do you need a wee wee' or make the pss noise and she 9/10 does one. If she's on her mat and needs a wee or I'm carrying her with no nappy on she goes mad kicking and squirming till I put her on the potty. She can definately hold on! If she's got a nappy on she will usually wee in it without fussing but will not poo without trying to alert me. Sometimes its like she forgets how to release the wee and cries out a couple of times on potty before letting go with a 'ughhh'! I hate the name EC though! It just seems like common sense to me if you can tell your baby is about to poo to help them out! Much easier to poo held up in a squat position than lying down, and loads easier to clean bums! She has done a few wees out and about too, I hold her over her wet nappy to wee when changing it if she does her squirmy thing. It just means she'll be nice and dry that bit longer

Doesn't seem to wee during sleep, and she seems to wee alot more in the morning than in the afternoon!

What did you mean about what to do with the poo?! Pour down loo??!! Will be liquid BF ones still I'm guessing!

I was/am the same with not tending to talk about it, but it did all come out into the open when it became obvious DS1 was in pants and asking to go to the loo!!
Good luck!!!

[BertieBotts]

If the poo is really liquidy then I'd be tempted to hold the full potty over the bath and rinse it out with the shower.

I know this seems a bit disgusting, but TBH there have probably been worse things in your bath... DS went through a phase where his poo was still very liquid, but he would not lie still for nappy changes for love nor money. I used to strip him down to his nappy, stand him in the bath, take the nappy off and just literally hose him down with the shower head until he was clean.

If you are really concerned about hygiene you could always spray some antibacterial stuff around the bath aftwerwards.

[MoonFaceMama]

Frekkles and maygirl thank you for sharing your very encouraging experiences! maygirl i love that this is working so well for you and your dd. She's same age as my ds so it's particularly meaningfull for me. Just shows what can be done with experience and clear intentions.

I agree the term Elimination communication is very off putting. Reeks of american quackery and sounds way more esoteric than it actually is. Any suggestions for a rebrand?!

Thanks everyone for poo disposal advice! Yes it is the sticky runny bf stuff. So while i figured it was destined for the toilet i imagined most would still be clinging to the potty iyswim. Shower it is ta bertie!

Attempted a couple of catches but no joy as yet. Napping now though so fingers crossed! Using a big bowl after all as don't trust my hold and aim enough for potty just yet.

Checked out tribal babies site and babieseverywhere's blog last night, very interesting. Also looked up the bsl sign for toilet in case i can tie it in. Sorry for lack of links but do this on phone so links are a complete pita.

will be back later!

[MoonFaceMama]

Catch! Well, half catch, but still !

[MoonFaceMama]

We're up to three catches this morning! I can't believe it! It really works! I just hold him over the bowl, say pspspsssss,wait thirty seconds, and he wees! I feel like i should have been doing this all along. it certainly comes naturally to him.

I hope those of you for whom this works, and who have been so generous with your experiences, don't think i haven't believed you. I did, but i also just can't get my head round why more people don't do it. Thus i expected it to be more difficult.

Better go count some more chickens...

[anonMum2]

I haven't really had a chance to read every single post on this article, but this thread is very positive and enlightening!

People from my country did tell me that you can start really young, to which I didn't take too much notice. Wish I hadn't now, as I do remember that when DS was between 2 and 5 months old, I was able to get him to poo nearly everyday by saying 'poo-poo' which I started associating since he was a newborn and lifting his leg up, life was pretty easy with no poo to scrape off his bottom. MIL thought I was crazy when she saw me doing this.

Thing is, he got older and we started going out often, so it got 'inconvenient' and I abandoned this completely as no one supported me and I didn't know about MN at that time. Guess babies then start having the habit of doing it in the nappy and it becomes a real battle to break this habit, as I am now learning during our never-ending potty training.

Keep up the good work MoonFaceMama as long as it's not stressful and you're both enjoying it!

[MoonFaceMama]

Thanks anonmum2. It is a real shame that you felt unable to continue with something that obviously had advantages to you and your baby. but completely understand as not sure how i'd feel about being seen doing this in public and the attention it might bring.

I am wondering why there isn't greater public awareness of ec, and feeling that there should be! (still think it needs a rebrand though...sorry to those who feel loyal!)

You say people in your country said you could start really young. Do you mind me asking where this is? [cheeky emoticon]!

[BertieBotts]

Moonface, there is a UK based site here called Nappy Free Baby, which I think is a little less off putting!

[MoonFaceMama]

Thanks bertie it is much more approachable (though still uses term ec). I particularly like the info re why hp's believe the bladder control at 18 months thing. And stuff about the philosophy and how ec is non-coercive etc as am still getting my head round this.

Have had several catches today now so am feeling positive!

[jamaisjedors]

I posted a really long post about this which we did a laid-back version of with our 2 DS, both then "fully" potty-trained day and night at 24mths.

We both work full-time so it wasn't full-time EC but we put them on the potty as others said, mostly for poos, to avoid washing pooey nappies and did lots of nappy-free time too.

Agree with why let them sit in their own waste .

And we were also horrified by people leaving their babies in pooey nappies more than 1 minute.

This did mean we had to leap out of bed in the morning to whip the nappy off or put them on the potty but the more you do the "EC" the less comfortable you feel about them being a bit wet or dirty in a nappy.

good luck

[MoonFaceMama]

That's great jamaisjedors! Esp as you were both working. Sounds like your ds's really took to it. Know what you mean re tolerance of dirty nappies going down, mine not his... Yet! [hopeful emoticon]

[maygirl]

DD did a wee on the toilet at toddler group today, there was a small toilet seat on there for the toddlers and she did her wriggle on the mat, so popped her on. Was the first time she's wee'd facing me, as usually I sit behind her to support her on the potty, she loved facing me and her brother and laughed as she went! Was behind locked door so no one saw!! Now wondering whether to get this tiny loo insert! One had for DS much bigger, but sure he could sit on it ok from around 1yr old. At moment I just fill the BF poopy potty with water a few times and pour into toilet till its nearly clean, final rinse with squirt liquid handwash soap, then wipe out any traces with toilet paper. The poo is not as sticky as it seems when not on a cloth nappy!

After her wee at the todder group she fed and we went shopping, she napped, came home and she was still dry, 2 hours later!

Yay for your successes today!

[MoonFaceMama]

That is fantastic maygirl! Hurrah for your dd! Sounds so lovely, imagining a little toothless giggle! Can't believe i am mildly envious of someone elses child weeing experience! Ha! Didn't anticipate this when decided to have kids!
And dry afterwards too! Am begining to think we (as a society) seriously underestimate the capabilites of our lo's.

Thank you for being excited about my catches!Looking forward to more tomorrow. What am exciting life i lead!

Please keep in touch about your progress!

[anonMum2]

MoonFaceMama, hope this doesn't sound too unfriendly.. but basically I come from a chinese community. Mind you it was all the (much) older generation who were into this. Most of the mums now in their 30s and 40s don't really practise this now either, they were probably in the same situation as me, tried and then abandoned it because all modern advise don't encourage it.

It's not too bad in my case though. DS was aware very early on and I guess we have been saving on nappy purchases, even if he does have accidents every week.

[MoonFaceMama]

Thank you for satisfying my curiosity anonmum2! When i first googled early potty training it led me to an ny times article that mentioned ec-ers buying special pants for babys,with a split in, from china town. So guess the chinese community in the states might practice it a bit too.

But know what you mean about it not being advised. Apparently the doctor who said lo's develop bladder control at 18m later acknowledged that other cultures succeced with ec, but thought it wouldn't work here. I just can't believe no hp, or indeed any one, have ever mentioned this to me!

Just in case any one is interested we had lots of catches today...including a poo! Can't believe how good this gonna be for my laundry (just as soon as my aim improves!)

[jessiealbright]

Cleaning out breastfed poo from potties isn't that difficult.

I hold the potty under the tap, and partially fill it with water, then pour all the contents down the toilet. If anything is clinging to the side, I repeat the process, finishing up by wiping around inside with tissue/wet wipe.

My husband initially turns the potty upside down over the toilet, and clunks it repeatedly. Then he rinses it to get rid of any remainder.