Still brooking no argument whatsoever that these babies are happy, healthy and awesome for 2013 too.

[jaggythistle]

eh. attempt at new thread. yo.

Sounds like cluster feeding to me, stacks. Hope he falls asleep soon!

Sounds normal to me Stacks

yeah sounds normal. I've a widgey pillow to balance R on for eating and MNing hands free. i think it wasn't quite so good for really tiny new babies as they slid down the gap a wee bit and also they fall off the boob sometimes! once they get better at staying latched on and grow a bit it's saved me some sore arms. :)

i think there's a big dent in the couch from me sitting there of an evening...

don't want to count my chickens, but R has been doing some longer sleeps the last few nights. he's been taking ages to settle in the evening though.

Happy New Year Everyone! May 2013 have the times of good and happiness outweigh the bad and sadness

I'm nodding with exhaustion - is it the sign of getting old to want to go to bed before midnight on Hogmanay? We aren't out - we're lying on separate sofas half-watching Alan Carr and MNing/playing with phones in silence.

FX it's the start of better times, Jaggy.

we've just watched a DVD and I've not even had a drink! managed a fair bit of chocolate orange though.

off to bed now i think though.

happy new year all...

happy new year lovely brookers. may 2013 be awesome for all of us xxx

In bed by 10.45 and feeling rotten with a viral thing that has gone round the family up here, facing a 300 mile trip down south with the 3 boys coming down with it too. 2013 be kind to us please?

Happy New Year!

It's Dh's birthday too, so am on pampering duty, yawn. Still, making birthday cake is not exactly a chore! Mmm.

Happy New Year all.

Little T had his most trying day yesterday, with hours and hours of feeding and only two 1h power naps the whole day/night. By midnight last night he was just thrashing about around the boob crying. The nipple was in his mouth, but he was acting like he couldn't find it. I found it all quite distressing to see him so upset :(
Finally gave up on trying to feed him and did an hour of jiggling while DH slept, which got T to sleep, but only till I moved him. However, I got him in bed at about 1:30 and attached to an incredibly sore nipple expecting another mammoth session. Must have fallen asleep pretty quickly without realising it (I was exhausted). Then woke up at 2:30 with an aching arm and cold breast... and a sleeping T! He slept through till 6, woke for a nappy change and 20m feed, and is still asleep now. Bliss.

Hawthers hope you feel better soon. Are you able to nap/rest in the car for the journey? Is it a stressful and busy visit, or one you can plant yourself on a sofa for?

Nearly just lost this whole post by mis-clicking on my phone. So I'm going to post now.

Happy New Year all! And happy birthday to Too's DH. Enjoy the cake!

Stacks glad you got some sleep in the end - hope that nipple is less sore soon.

Hawthers no brooking that the boys are, in fact, tired rather than virus-y. And you have a smooth, uneventful journey home.

I hoped there was a breastfeeding forum on here, but I can't find one using the phone app. Can you offer any advice?

T latches himself now when I breastfeed laying down. He's pretty good at it I thought, getting on the breast in a few seconds. The latch is sore for the first little while, then settles down so I can barely feel it.

He'll then feed for 15-45 minutes before falling asleep still attached, or turning his head to spit out nipple, then snuggling in to me. He's never been offered the second breast, as he's always asleep on the first.

He was weighed the other day, and is only 30g short of his birthweight.

So, The midwife came over this afternoon as I mentioned to her that I wasn't sure our latch is quite right. This is only because the cluster feeding yesterday made my nipples really sore, and the fact he latches himself, which no one told me he should be able to do.

She watched and said he latches wrong. I can see from the pictures that she's right, he doesn't have as much breast in his mouth as he should, and his cheeks dimple slightly as he sucks. He also does 2-3 sucks per swallow, rather than the 1:1 suggested by the book. When she latched him on properly he pulled back to his normal latch, needing her to relatch him multiple times.

However, she's scared me saying T will be exhausting himself trying to suck, isn't getting enough milk, and that I'll get thrush and blocked ducts etc. she said we should be waking him up every time he falls asleep on the breast, and putting him back till he refuses one, then giving him the second breast.

We tried this for the feed while she was here and after she left. Waking T up about 5 times and refusing to let him settle. I can latch him better in cross carry hold, so resorted to that to force more in. Finally let him rest, when he vomited a spectacular amount of milk, soaking through his clothes. After a change he settled to sleep refusing more milk.

What do I do? Keep going as before, or do what she says?

Happy new year everyone!

Stacks, definitely sounds like cluster feeding to me. For the first couple of months of her life DD settled into a 4/5 hour cluster feeding session every evening.... I used to take phone (for MN, obviously!), Kindle, and lots of snacks [grins].

It would appear we've had flu here for the last wk, judging by just how bad things have been. DH has had it too, and obviously Iz has had something (cough, phlegmmy, temperature). Still feeling rotten, which is rubbish - we've effectively lost the last week, which is really sad for DH as he goes back to work tomorrow if well enough :(

Does anyone have any new years resolutions? Mine are to work harder on my music, to listen more (to music, radio, and everyone I love!), and to generally be happier and lesss stressed!

Sorry Stacks, cross post!

Tips I was told from the breastfeeding supporter who came out to visit me, and the breastfeeding group I go to:

• You do have to persist with the latch. If it still hurts after 10 seconds (I used to sing a song that was 10 sec long to get me through!) then it's wrong. You do have to keep relatching if it is wrong, or they'll learn the wrong one and cause you more pain in the long run (that's what happened to me!).
• Does he have enough wet/dirty nappies? Wet more important! If so, then he's getting enough milk.
• There's nothing wrong with falling asleep on the breast- it's completely natural. As long as he doesn't do it after a couple of minutes, then not get enough milk (as demonstrated by the number of wet nappies) then it's not a problem. I still regularly feed Iz to sleep.
• There seem to be two schools of thought re breasts and emptying them. My breastfeeding supporter said always feed from one breast for an entire hour - if they stop feeding, then want more, if within an hour then return to that same breast. Other people say swap when it's empty. To be honest, I think it's more of a personal preference thing - and you'll discover what works for you.

Personally, I'd say that if he seems happy and is producing enough wet nappies, then all's fine? But do watch the latch, as when their mouths are so small that's the bit that will cause you pain (or not, if right!). It took me a lot of perservering with Iz to get ours right every time - partly me not latching her on right, and partly her doing it slightly wrong!

i can't link to the forum stacks, but it's under the headings: talk/feed the world/breast and bottle feeding. you can maybe post and ask for tiktok who is a rl bf counsellor and there are quite a few other qualified ladies around too. I've got helpful answers for lots of stuff from when DS1 was tiny to when he stopped at 2.

it sounds like T is gaining weight well, so i guess the main prob is whether his possibly wrong latch hurts.

if you can find the bf info/advice page on here it has the numbers for the various helplines too.

we have a crawling baby here! R has just taken off all of a sudden and has been zooming about all afternoon. he started with a funny one legged motion, but seems to have cracked it now. he's currently exhausted and feeding asleep on my knee.

he's been sleeping 3-4 hours at a time for the first time, well ever really. he slept till after 9 the other day and i woke DS1 going in to peer into the cot.

it's only a week till DS1 starts nursery, really hope he likes it!

oh resolutions, none really but maybe try not to fight with DH so much...

I have a number of resolutions...go back on the diet; start exercising to lose the mummy tummy; clean more; keep up with current affairs; write a novel; budget, meal plan and save money...plus have more sex, which comes under the heading of being nicer to Dh.

Stacks, quite honestly if your nipples aren't sore and T is putting on weight well then I don't think there can be much wrong. What did the mw say about T's weight gain?

I agree stacks! That's a great weight gain and hv's can be very meddlesome! Yes, try to improve the latch if it hurts but personally I would never wake a baby to feed them! I believe in trusting your baby to know when it is hungry and trusting your body to meet the demands. Cluster feeding builds your supply and feeding to sleep is fine. Your DS was probably sick as had over fed. My DS 2 is massive for his age (hv coming to weigh him tomorrow so not sure re weight but he will be 17 weeks tomorrow and almost too big for the 6-9 month clothes he is currently wearing!) I have never woke him up to feed him and never used formula and never topped up with expressed milk. I have only just got to the stage where he needs to feed from both sides in one feed! And he only needs this for the last feed of the night (approx 8.15pm) and having had to express for him when he was being tube fed in hospital 4 weeks ago, I discovered I only produce 2 oz per boob at that time compared to around 4-5 oz per boob first thing in the morning so it's no wonder he needs both sides for his last feed! Especially being such a big baby!

Stacks I'd agree with what people have said here. Persevere with the latch, but if your boobs feel ok, don't keep on to the point of upsetting T. As long as he keeps gaining weight well, seems content and you're comfortable, I wouldn't worry. Especially I wouldn't offer both sides - like Musical said, I was told to return to the same side within an hour, then offer the other side. (Disclaimer: my mum fed us from both sides at each feed successfully, so do whichever you prefer. :) ) I think the advice the midwife gave you is for babies who aren't gaining weight and are too sleepy to feed properly, but it doesn't sound like T has a problem from what you describe. In fact, it sounds like you're doing brilliantly!

Musical :( about flu.

Jaggy yay for crawling and sleep! I think my DS may be a bum-shuffler who never gets crawling.

Resolutions: to spend at least 10 mins a day quality time with DH without TV or radio on.

bum. i knew I'd jinx it - monkey up again for a feed.

it's lucky he's cute and also clings on and snuggles in when i pick him out of the cot. it's kind of annoying as I'd leave him to chat a bit longer if he wasn't so loud while DS1 is sleeping! he wasn't upset this time, just flapping his arms about vigorously.

So our nanny has called to say she won't be in and as ive not been to work since mid Dec due to where Christmas fell, DH has taken the day off to look after the boys.

Is it bad that I'm wondering how the hell he'll get on as its the first time he has had the boys on his own all day?

nope! i was the same the day i went back to work!

Loopy how lovely to see you! I hope everything's going well?

Stacks I tend to be skeptical of HV advice, and much more inclined to follow my baby's guide. If there's no real problem to be solved (weight issues or a latch that hurts for the whole bfing session) then I'd just let my baby get on with it. I think very few people have a tiny baby that latches on perfectly every time - a latch that hurts a bit at the start but stops hurting very quickly is about as good as it gets I think. By the time you've put your baby on and off the nipple several times to make sure they have a perfect latch, you've probably made your nipple just as sore as if you'd just left them to it. The biggest latch improvements will only come when the baby is bigger and stronger, until then I think there's an element of just toughing it out. That's only my opinion though, and I'm not even particularly experienced (only 1 DC) let alone qualified. I would never wake a sleeping baby to offer a second breast though, unless you're trying to solve a specific problem like snacking or weight gain.

Musical so sorry to hear about illness in your household. I hope you're all better now? Poor you, poor Iz and esp your poor DH.

Jaggy WOOHOO for crawling!!!! Super exciting! That's a very thoughtful Christmas present Well done R!!

Hawthers I'm sure your DH and the boys will be fine, try not to worry too much although I would be the same! Plus your DH will appreciate you a lot more by the end of the day

Over here I've decided to return home after all. Mostly because my parents need their flat back for work-related reasons (although they would have let me stay longer if needed). Instead I've said it's DH's turn to move out. He's supposed to be basing himself with relatives for the next 3 months or so, but he's dragging his heels about arranging anything. I'm really dreading going back to be honest. Being stuck in a house all day with only a really negative angry depressed person as company is ridiculously stressful, and I'm worried that DH will still spend most of his time at our house even if he's officially living elsewhere. Still, I'm trying to hang in there long enough for him to get some real help. When If I end this marriage I want to know I gave him every chance.

Sorry to be a downer as usual! It's just we're moving back tomorrow so it's kind of preying on my mind.

This will be a rubbish post again as I'm pushing boys so one handed (oh for babies who nap in the blooming house!)

stacks, just to be really annoying, I'd say sit up and feed in the cradle position and get the latch right. Just because I struggled with B. I saw a lactation consultant 2or 3 times. I could get him on ok in cradle hold but not rugby ball but when they were tiny he and S both fed so often that feeding individually wasn't really an option and i could only feed one cradle one rugby ball when they were bigger. Even now, I could tell you which side I've fed B from as its less comfortable. It's not painful when I feed, and never was for the whole feed, but comparing him to S his latch is worse and it does make quite a big difference to me. Plus o know for a fact its B giving me recurrent blocked ducts/ mastitis. I wouldn't wake a sleeping baby to feed, I had to with B initially as he weighed less than 2.5kg and wasn't gaining (was threatened with readmission) but i never felt he fed well if i woke him, I found it hard to wake him (partly due to his jaundice which makes them sleepier) and then he'd be more sick than usual. In hindsight I wish I hadn't tried to wake him, I think he'd have been ok by himself. They were big cluster feeders though, and obviously my boys, despite growing like weeds and crossing multiple upward centiles, have never had more than one boob or formula. Incidentally the L C said not to feed more frequently than 2 hourly (mine were feeding hourly easily, building supply to feed two) as they'll be snacking and not hungry and it makes them more windy and feeds into the colic cycle. But when i rang back in tears to say it was going great feed spacing for S but not B she said not to torment myself and him and wait a while longer before feed spacing (which i was only doing to 2 hourly!) . Again with hindsight B was miserable and cows milk protein intolerant but hey...

So the point of the ramble is I'd persevere with the latch but not the waking, and not two boobs, and B for all the heartache has stacked way more weight on and overtaken his brother in height ( but who knows what they weigh!)