Still brooking no argument whatsoever that these babies are happy, healthy and awesome for 2013 too.

[jaggythistle]

eh. attempt at new thread. yo.

When do babies show an interest in holding there own toys and how can I encourage it? DD is 12 weeks.

The tandam rolling does sound cute

DD was definitely about 15 weeks for an interest in toys cakes, just looked in her baby book :) . Just keep showing her, it'll come. She loved rattles, as do the boys

I believe our very first brooking baby is 1 today Happy Birthday little F. Hope you're all having a great time Hawthers.

I think any time around now cakes. Just try and give her things to hold and expect her to drop them lots until she gets the hang of it.

We went ahead with the entertaining Dream. Although I ended up apologising and heading to bed at midnight, I couldn't stay awake any longer. Our guests left about 1am and we then had a bad night with DS who has been a nightmare all week wanting to get up. I shouted at him at 5am this morning and told him that he didn't go to sleep his birthday wouldn't come because it would still be today and . Not my finest moment of parenting but he's so over excited from Christmas and about his birthday tomorrow he's not sleeping very well and he just shouts for us at the top of his voice. DH and I have been up and down like yo yos all week.

happy birthday not so little f! hope you're having fun hawthers.
dream tandem rolling sounds so sweet.
scream very sorry to hear about you and your dh, I hope things improve soon.
cakes I think dd was prob nearer 4 months but I'd just keep persisting and vary the toys as you never know what they'll take a shine to. ds loved hid rattle and dd had developed a real love for a soft doll.
random question: I think I want to retrain, possibly in psychology. I'm 38, do you think I'm too old?

oh and scarlet ds has also been a bedtime horror for the last week. I feel your pain! hope he has a lovely birthday though

Dream, tandem rolling sounds so sweet! :)

Iz is another one who loves being on her feet. She's loved it for ages- I remember watching the Olympics (so she must have been about 2 1/2 months old) and her wanting to be on her feet - obviously couldn't pull herself up yet, but really enjoyed it. Someone told me that can damage their legs at an early age though, so tried not to do it so often... it's her favourite thing now though, and she's constantly pulling herself up on things and then standing one handed. She lets go completely every now and again, which really freaks me out..

Jaggy, sitting up from lying down is impressive!

Thanks for the health well wishes. Iz seems to be getting better, but I'm getting worse - only got about 4 1/2 hours sleep last night due to being ill. Managed a short nap today, but really looking forward to getting to bed - I have scores to proof before I can though, urgh. I do have copious amounts of chocolate to help me cope though..

Happy birthday to F! Hope you've had a lovely day Hawthers.

Well remembered scarlet f is indeed 1 today. I can't believe he is so big! We've had a lovely day. Went swimming this morning and his big bro did amazingly well and floated with his feet off the ground and everything. F had a monster nap all afternoon then we had a birthday tea for 15 and now I'm exhausted. Have put a photo of f on fb - its difficult to get one as he is constantly on the move. And sympathies on the bedtime issues. DS1 has been up just about every night with one thing and another. DH totally knackered and keeps falling asleep if hr sits still for more than 10 mins. But also short tempered and he had a paddy earlier and ended up throwing a wet nappy on the floor in anger which of course exploded all over me, the kitchen floor, the hall carpet all 5 mins before all the guests arrived for tea. Fortunately it totally diffused his frustration and we ended up giggling.

ninja def not too old to retrain I don't think. Depressingly you've prob got another 30 yrs of work...

Happy birthday to f, that has gone quickly, I remember when you joined us Hawthers

I've decided it's about time to introduce a bedtime routine. N starts to get ready from 6, boob and get into sleeping bag. She has quiet time on my lap before going up to bed at 7. I read her a story in bed and then leave her. She's been quite good with this and going to sleep quite quickly. Only problem is that she doesn't sleep for long. When she wakes up, DH has been giving her weetabix to try and fill her up for the night. We started this on Weds, she took 45 mins to stop crying and go to sleep, last night took 90 mins and she has been crying for 15 mins so far tonight. This will get better, right? She's crying because she doesn't want to be in her cot, she puts her arms up to ask to be picked up but we are making her stay there and comforting her in bed.

R also falls asleep between 7 and 8 but not for long. sometimes we put him to bed, but if DS1 is struggling to get to sleep i just let him sleep on my knee in the living room for a bit and take him through when it won't disturb his brother.

i haven't really let either of them cry if i can help it so no idea, sorry Jen . i take the laziest way out of anything as i freely admit. crying just melts my head and i can't stand it. i had stereo crying last night, as DS1 didn't want to go to bed and DS2 was just exhausted. i felt slightly mental by the time i got them calmed down.

DS2's routine involves clambering around his brother's bed in his pjs while i brush both their teeth and read a bedtime story, then he goes into his sleeping bag and feeds to sleep. I'm not sure when I'll get more organised!

I never leave to cry. The baby whisperer says not to which is the only justification I need as I feel like jaggy about crying. While I may not be one to advise seeing as S is a terrible sleeper, all 3 go to sleep, between 7 & 7:30 by themselves with no tears (but some grumbling/whinging from B). Pick her up, comfort her, put her down again. That's what I'd do. She'll get the message- even S has!!! Their routine is bath, one at a time mainly as they're too splashy- well, b is and S gets fed up of it, plus I rarely tandem feed now as they feed badly- too busy giggling at each other. So bath, babygro, sleeping bag, boob, burb, put down for first baby (often b), then second nearly ready by the time I've done that, DD stuck in bath with baby number 2 in at some point, then baby 2 fed and put down, then DD gets hysterical if I don't do bedtime so if any further burping/ settling needed dh does that while i do stories/ pj's with DD. It's not ideal, as DD is downstairs by herself watching postman pat dvds til at least first baby is done.. she's so good, but i do feel sorry for the poor abandoned little tike :(

biscuits, I'm all confused about fb and where you disappeared to from the secret group... But I'll say it again, now you've re-friended me I know you de-friended me :)

We introduced a night time routine at about 6 weeks Jen. More for us than for Iz - having a routine helped me stay sane at bedtime!

The time is slightly flexible depending on how she's napped at the moment (she seems to be trying to cut down from 3 to 2 naps) and how late the last nap was, but she's normally asleep between 7 and 8. The routine begins with quieter playing time after dinner, and then DH takes over - with a bath on every other day, and then getting changed for bed and a sleeping bag. Sometimes a book (need to do this every day!) and often a few songs. I then feed her - sometimes to sleep, though if she's too awake I put her down and let her fall asleep on her own.

She doesn't tend to cry at bedtime, and if she wakes up and cries I let her for a couple of minutes if it's her usual shouting/grumpy cry - but if it's a proper upset cry I'm straight there. It's normally a grumpy one - as if complaining to the world that she's been woken up - and gets more shouty/grumpy if she can't resettle herself, at which point I go in. She doesn't "cry" properly much actually.. just shouts to get herself heard and her opinions across. I have a feeling she'll be a bit of a madam...!

Ah, she's been grumbling for a couple of minutes, so duty calls...

dream biscuits did the same to me, wonder what that's all about?
how lovely with all the recent no brookers babies arriving. must. stop. feeling. broody.
happy birthday scarlets ds. have a fab day.
Jen maybe a combo of patting and shushing might work? neither of mine have ever gone to bed early, usually around 8.30ish although dd often falls asleep on her bedtime bottle she drop off in the cot if I'm in the room. I sometimes resort to s quiet version of the wheels on the bus if she needs calming. I try not to pick her up unless she really kicks off. consistentcy is the key as far as I'm concerned, at least 3 weeks or so for it to stick. that said, don't be scared to modify once your routine is established. hope that makes sense?
db and sil coming today. I expect more Christmas hysteria from ds

Apologies - my fb went a bit pear shaped! No offence intended to anyone

Merry Christmas everybody!

Have just finished reading old thread and haven't started catching up on this one yet - just wanted to say Stacks, congratulations! What a Chrismas present! Hurray for you and baby Thomas.

Christmas. Fecking gin keyboard.

So, I'm clearly Old now as I'm super pleased with my new Christmas present of a handheld vacuum cleaner.

However it has failed to make me a nicer person. Been horribly snappy to dh today. :( Plus horrible bedtime, loads of tears, finally had S ready, started feeding him then a mega vomit got me, the bedding, everything. In fact, I've just finished spooning and scraping the excess sick off the clothes and rinsing the chunks off ready for the wash, once the bedsheets are done... (I already did the sick treatment for them as we only have one base sheet, of all the ridiculous things, grumble, grumble...) So then he was hysterical in his cot while i fed B, had a bit more milk and went to sleep (phew) but I'm on the landing vigil for DD, as she had a short nap today sp is protesting about bedtime. She needed it though, we went swimming this morning while dh drove the boys round then lunch at pizza express, which was slightly stressful...

Sorry, interlude there for DD-cuddling...

So, thinking of pomme out starting her new life for 18 months

Hoping biscuits solved the DIY crisis

And Brooking all the poorly Lo's are improving.

Also, straw poll survey, how much of their awake time do your babies spend left to their own devices? In bouncers, jumperoos, on mats etc by themselves? And what things do you do with them?
I'm wondering how bad mine are in comparison as my dad was saying how he felt for the boys just sat getting bored and whingey after lunch while i desperately cleared up the devastation of 3 highchair bound children all feeding themselves... I only do essential jobs- like preparing (quick) meals, clearing up after meals, laundry in and out of washing machine/ tumble dryer (if i don't run 1-2 loads a day I'm stuffed and can end up doing 4-5 in a day to try and catch up, don't quite know how that works!!). But the poor boys get remarkably little time and attention from me.

I'm feeling guilty, as i know biscuits joked about needing to take her ds2 somewhere other than the supermarket but that's an exaggeration as he has swimming lessons and everything!! My boys have never been in a pool... Today they went car to buggy to highchairs, to buggy, to car, to buggy (as they didn't sleep on the way home after lunch so were pushed for a nap in the rain, as usual) then I was having to start tea once they woke up. I sang them one song. Poor little tikes. They sometimes catch a bit of a playgroup on a Wednesday, and are now usually awake if we make it to music group on Thursday- but that runs Uni style terms with long breaks, so finished 2 weeks before Christmas... And that's it. As we do a lot of stomping round the village, playground in the rain type stuff we are always out but they're stuck in a forward facing buggy with no interaction. Argh!!! The mother guilt has got me badly today!!!

I have the laptop and a sleeping baby, so thought I'd come do a proper post to say hello. I just got home from the hospital yesterday, which is good but has been a bit surreal too, and also a bit of an adjustment. There are no midwives to ask silly questions of and to help make me feel secure just being there, there's no meals delivered at the right time and right temperature (apart from breakfasts, where the milk was warmer than the toast), and there's no other mums to talk to and see struggle. I did sleep better last night than I have in a long time - in that I slept at all. I think I've only managed a dose in the hospital with all the noises and lights. DH has found the transition to be being home a bit hard though - he's been getting 10 hours a night while I've been in hospital, and this morning felt so so tired as he'd only had 6 or 7 hours with the baby disturbing him.

DS has been a wonderful baby so far, never really crying, and feeding and sleeping really well. By far the best behaved baby on the ward :) He's a little overcooked, coming out at 42+2, so has really dry skin on his hands and feet, and long (sharp!) little nails. He's also a practiced fist sucker, he's excellent at getting them to his mouth, and makes the cutest noise when sucking them (and getting them in the way when trying to latch).

I'm still recovering from the CS, and stil in quite a bit of pain. I stayed in hospital an extra night to try and get on top of it, and it's a bit better, but I'm still taking more than the expected amount of painkillers. It's really painful to lay on my side unless the painkillers are working fully, which is making sleeping and feeding hard (I like to lay down and feed for the most part, it's easier while I'm so tired too). Really hoping this improves soon, those of you that had CS - how long did it take to be pain free when doing nothing?

Also, I have one sore nipple - DS suckles after he's finished feeding, and tends to nip at this one nipple much more than the other (I think I'm going to get a dummy tomorrow to try and help). However, in the mean time how does 'it' work? The rules seem quite strict on feeding the same amount from each side, but can I miss a feed or two on one side to let the nipple recover? Will it cause an uneven milk supply?

I'm just sort of dumping all the thoughts I've been thinking for the past few nights. I've wondered what advice I'd get from MN on all this stuff, but it's turned this into a mammoth me me me post!

I've been reading the thread for a while to try and keep up with you all. I don't really have much I can offer just now though, apart from some sympathy and some 'aww' comments. One day I will be as wise as all of you, but till DS grows a bit and I get a little more experience, I may stay kind of quiet (except to ask for help, with the promise of future re-payment).

dream i honestly don't feel i have the energy to be nice to DH sometimes. I think I try harder with the dc, because I'd feel bad snapping at them. in moments of calm, i do try to show more affection but tbh that's not often enough.

i have no idea how you'd do it with 2 babies and a younger toddler! i keep telling myself it'll get better after the baby stage when DS2 goes to bed a bit earlier...and stays asleep longer!

having said that the boys slept in for ages this morning after a late night out last night. we met lots of lovely friends for an annual just after Christmas meal. DS1 slept till 9 and DS2 was up at 8. DS2 had a massive coughing fit which freaked me out completely, then a poo, then cuddled back in to sleep till 10.

he is now pretending it's not night time...

Stacks, hurrah for being home - congratulations!

Re the nipple pain - what kind of pain is it? I had sore/cracked/bleeding nipples for the first month or so of life with DD, and my tips are as follows:

• Use Lansinoh (nipple cream) or similar after every feed if you need to. If they crack especially. Expressing a bit of milk onto the nipple and leaving it on there to air dry helps.
• Air your nipples as much as possible if they are hurting. (just make sure to put them back in before guests arrive, or opening the door to the postman).

Purple was our resident wonderful BF tip/expert person.... hope all's going well for her at the moment! Do you have a BF consultant person locally who can come out to you? I did, and that helped me so so much. I've been told that introducing a dummy before 6 weeks is a bad idea as the latch hasn't been properly learnt by the baby until then, and introducing one will actually do more harm than good. One of my friends tried to, and had that problem. I'm sure there'll be people with different experiences though...

Eeek Iz is awake - I'll be back...

Stacks I know how you feel on the not being able to offer much advice to others bit. Coming home from hospital is also quite daunting, hope DH and any other family are helping, espec round house, food etc.
I had a CS spent 4 nights in hospital in total and took painkillers for about a week after I came home. Just don't do what I did, make sure you eat then have tablets else you end up with an upset tummy on top of everything else.
I spent most of first week sleeping on the sofa and feeding lay on the lounge floor I just couldn't master any sat up feeding positions to begin with. Also meant DH had reasonable sleep. I think I got more comfortable feeling when DD was about 3-4wks old.

I had a couple of issues with one breast and really couldn't bear feeding from that side. I missed feeding from it a couple of times and it did help although in my case I got told feeding would sort issues. Sometimes it can get really really uncomfortable feeling if you don't feed from one side for a while but hand expressing is then always an option. I'm sure others know more though.

Thanks for your kind words jaggy :)

stacks, I had a luffly planned section, so bit different, but it was a twins section, so larger overall bloodloss etc. (Though well within normal for a twin section, just a bit more than singleton iykwim). I came home on day 4 and was sobbing over how I couldn't cope as if i knelt down to cuddle DD, who was desperate for a cuddle, 18 months old and never away from me before, any movement when she was slightly too boisterous with her cuddle was agony. It was very sore and i was taking the full dose of diclofenac and paracetamol. On day 6 the diclofenac gave me D&V and i was in total agony, more sobbing. I stopped it then though, just paracetamol, every 4 hours. By day 14 I was taking no painkillers, day 15 i was driving, day 17 i drove the three children to a playgroup!! So with luck it could be much faster than you expect, I was feeling very bleak about how long it'd take in the first week. A friend had an emergency section after failure to progress- she'd been in labour 3 days, so it wasn't a category 1 kind of emergency but long hard time before it, and she said she walked from her house to town, lunch in a cafe, town to park, cake there, park home on day 16 or so (though her hubby pushed the buggy) and i was very very jealous as no way could I have done that after my third degree tear!! I easily could have after my CS.

Yes, I think you can miss a feed or two, although I'd be tempted to try and express if you do, just to keep/ get your supply up. But feeding twice in a row from the same side is fine, I used to forget and do it with DD all the time!! Do you have a pump? I was terrible for this, but you do have to just take them off if they're feeding/latching badly. I know exactly what you mean though, I've one brilliant feeder, and one who nips. I take him off when he's latched wrongly, but he's also started biting which is just as bad- I've had multiple bouts of mastitis this time, loads of antibiotics for it and lots of pain. A lot of my problems were due to not being able to stop him latching badly and sliding off towards the nipple end while feeding as I had no hands as they fed constantly when tiny so I always tandem fed. Now its if I'm knackered in the night and don't notice/act. I found seeing a lactation consultant and breast feeding network supporters really helpful. Have you got in touch with anyone? They came out to me as I would have struggled to get to a bf group. I'm sure they would to you after a CS.

Right, got to go, my bedsheet is finally out of the tumble dryer and I'm dying to get to bed!!!

Oh, snap cakes, my problem was I'd been taking the diclofenac on an empty stomach. Vomiting plus CS wound = Bad Plan. So make sure you eat with it if you're taking an anti-inflammatory stacks. even if its just a piece of toast and glass of milk.

Agree with the lansinoh too. Every feed and in between too. With my nipples both getting a constant battering I used 2.5 tubes with the boys!!

hi stacks, congrats again and hello.

sorry i can't remember how long the pain took to subside a bit with my cs. i was on painkillers for a while though.

i did favour one side when feeding a bit after i got a cracked nipple (DS1 had a tongue tie). i expressed a wee bit from the side i was slightly avoiding and also used loads of Lansinoh. it all seemed to even out in the end! if it's hurting a lot the latch might not be quite right though, maybe worth getting it checked. even with a baby feeding away for ages you shouldn't really be getting mangled.

hope it settles down soon.