Still brooking no argument whatsoever that these babies are happy, healthy and awesome for 2013 too.

[jaggythistle]

eh. attempt at new thread. yo.

[jaggythistle]

also reckon avoid dummy if at all possible, all that seemingly extra sucking at this stage is stimulating your supply.

oops. just as DS2 finally dropped off I've had to make a dash to the toilet with a bad tummy. think maybe my leftover cheesecake is not agreeing with me as the same happened yesterday. poo. better chuck the rest.

[musicalmrs]

Hmmm, she's muttering to herself now...

Stacks - I also fed from one side more than the other at times when I had really bad cracking/bleeding on one side. Just be careful not to do it too much or you may end up with blocked ducts (as I did).

Aaahhhhhhh Iz still has a bit of a temperature. Took her to the ooooooh doctor (as they're now known in our house!) earlier, who checked her over and confirmed no obvious infections - he reckons she's had a couple of viruses back to back.

Don't think it helps that DH keeps turning the thermostat for the house up and up. He's already in bed (has caught the cold I've had), and just realised he'd turned it up 5 degrees. I am raging - hoping this raging over something ridiculous is a sign that AF is on its way, and not just me going mad! Woke up Iz taking a layer off her (as she was boiling... probably due to combination of house temp and fever), so took forever to get her down again :(

Dream, ouch to the constant nipple battering by the boys, and to 2.5 tubes! I got through .5 - I remember being shocked at the price, but it really is worth its weight in gold...

Iz spends quite a bit of time left to her own devices normally. She seems to like it that way. I take her to baby groups and she crawls off into the middle of the room to play with toys and talk to other people!! At home she does a mixture of playing with me, playing with toys on her own and tormenting the cats. She seems to be very independent though. Interestingly, for the past week since she's been under the weather she's been a lot more clingy- quite lovely as I've gotten more cuddles! I personally think it's important that babies are left to their own devices a bit to ensure they can play independently, to ensure that the parents can actually do a few things..! (or maybe that's just me...). I suppose it also helps that she can get around on her own now.. although makes it much more dangerous..

A handhold hoover sounds like a fabulous Christmas present Dream. I'll join you in getting old .

[ScreamIfYouStillBelieveInSanta]

Hi Stacks! Congrats again, and lovely to see you in here!

I had a planned section, and I was very lucky that the recovery went super smoothly. I'm a HUGE wuss when it comes to pain, so I took the max allowed dosage of both painkillers, until over a week after my cs, despite not really being in proper pain at any point. I'm certain I took the meds for longer than I actually needed them, I was just too afraid to miss a dose and find out how it felt unmedicated! It was a really short time, in retrospect, from cs to being pain-free whilst lying in bed without meds, I probably tried it for the first time around day 10 and it was fine.

As for giving one side a break from bfing - every baby is different and you have to see what you can get away with works for your LO. I had AWFUL engorgement at the beginning, it lasted from day 2 through to day 12 - a truly ridiculously unlucky length of time. Due to my anime-style rock hard balloon boobs, poor DD couldn't get a good latch and although she was a really good feeder my nipples became super sore very early on. At the one week mark one nipple in particular was so sore I was sobbing every time DD latched on, and I basically decided that I'd rather give up bfing than carry on with the pain. As a last ditch attempt to make it through the seemingly never-ending engorgement period I decided to give the extra-sore nipple 24 hours off duty. I fed DD as normal on the the other side, and then expressed from the sorest side and gave DD a bottle with the ebm. So DD alternated boob and bottle for 24 hours at 1 week old.

It is definitely NOT RECOMMENDED by bfing experts to introduce a bottle so early when you want to ebf, in case of nipple confusion. However I was at a point where if I hadn't been able to let my nipple heal I would have just moved to ff anyway, so I decided to take the risk. I was very lucky that DD took it all in her stride, she accepted the bottle without protest, and still continued to bf with no problems. After 24 hours off my nipple felt soooooooo much better and I was able to continue bfing on that side, my supply was unaffected (my problem was always over-supply). I ebf DD for 5 months, and only gave up bfing after 6 months, and throughout that time she had 1 or 2 bottles of ebm every day, whenever we were out in public.

The point of my stupidly long-winded story is that not every baby gets nipple confusion, and sometimes giving your boobs a break can be beneficial for bfing in the long term. Obviously I'm sure the bf experts are right, and perhaps lots of babies do get confused, but if it's a choice between giving up bfing altogether or having a break, I'd say it's worth a try!

[ScreamIfYouStillBelieveInSanta]

Dream every time you casually mention everything you get done on an average day my jaw hits the ground! You are a superstar! I'm quite certain your LOs are incredibly lucky to have such an amazing Mum, so no more guilt thank you! I agree with Musical that kids need to spend at least some time each day entertaining themselves, to encourage independence. I'm hopeless at this myself, DD is with me for almost all the time she's awake. As a consequence of this I can't get anything done all day long, it takes me until DD's afternoon nap to get dressed most some days . DD will play "by herself" (meaning no direct interaction from me) so long as I'm sitting right by her. If I try to get her to play on a mat by herself in the kitchen while I'm making a meal though she immediately comes over to me and pulls at my knees to be picked up. If I try to move her away she cries and repeatedly comes back over to me.

I personally think that the fact you've had to leave the boys to their own devices a lot more is a positive. You're always close by, they're not alone or unstimulated, I think watching you work is probably both stimulating and educational for them! Not to mention the development that comes from independent play! By pandering to DD's clinginess I think I'm not really helping her in the long run :( So she gets alot of direct development - helping her to learn to balance / walk / sign / talk etc. We do alot with the walker everyday, we read several books each day, we sing songs and generally tumble around with her thousands of toys. Plus she's not ALWAYS with me, I actually go out a fair bit and I've been on several overnight trips away from her, so she's with her Dad or my family alot. The problem is she's never left to her own devices, she always has someone directly interacting with her. I'm hoping nursery will help with this though.

I find it really stressful to try and get anything done while looking after DD because she cries, so I've just stopped trying really I arrange for my DH, or sis, or Mum, etc etc to look after DD while I do anything, even basics like putting a wash on. Trying to get stuff done while she's crying just upsets us both. It's a poor excuse though, I know I'm being a bad Mum and not preparing her for the real world by not developing her independence. :(

Wow, talk about going overboard with my response there! I'm sorry, and I'm way too tired to go back through and try to cut down the waffle. Apologies ladies, I have never mastered the knack of being concise

[scarletfestivefingernail]

Welcome home Stacks. Lovely to hear that DS has been settling well. Your DH should think himself lucky to get 6/7 hours sleep I've not had that much sleep since before I was pg with DS over 4 years ago

I can't help with the nip or boobage query, but I can tell you about my EMCS.

Mine also occurred at the end of a long, drawn out, uncomfortable induction process after spending 2 days and nights on a busy labour ward hearing everything else going on. I found the wind pains horrific until day 4 and actually couldn't believe it was only wind that was causing it. I then went and got an infection in my wound and was put on anti biotics on day 5. I felt ill rather than pain to be honest. I felt I needed the diclofenac and paracetamol until about day 12 I think. I could probably have stopped before but I was scared.

It's amazing how suddenly you're able to do stuff. I went from being unable to walk to carrying on at home as nearly normal within a fortnight or so. I left driving for a month mainly because I didn't want anyone to think "oh well she's back to normal now, she doesn't need any help". Anyone meaning DH.

If you're planning on breast feeding for longer I believe it's advisable to not use a dummy until BFing is fully established. I think quite often babies end up fooling themselves into being pacified by a dummy when really it's food they need and it can cause problems with with their weight gain and also your supply.

[scarletfestivefingernail]

Dream you really are hard on yourself. Please give yourself a break!

Both my kids spend loads of time entertaining themselves and DS is living proof that it's a good thing IMO (check out my latest FB photos). He has a brilliant attention span, his attention to detail is amazing and he doesn't whine or whinge. I play with him every day but probably only a couple of times say for 15 minutes each? He then gets read to every night before bed for half an hour or so, but that is probably it. Of course he has other adult interaction like his weekly swimming lesson with DH and his playgroup sessions 3 times a week, but at home he pleases himself most of the time, although obviously I'm there. And he's good at it.

DD has even less 121 time with me. Again, she's a happy little soul. I play with her every day. Probably more frequent, but shorter time slots. She plays on the floor with her toys or ages.

[ScreamIfYouStillBelieveInSanta]

Hmm, reading all your posts I'm now resolved to try to let DD spend more time entertaining herself. I think it's a little harder for us because we have super hard wooden/tile floors throughout the house, and for months now the only thing little A wants to do is pull herself up on things and stand. Increasingly she doesn't even want to hold on to anything once she's standing. So she falls a lot and I tend to follow her around catching her. She's only bumped her head on our floors a few times, but each and every time it's so hard and loud that my heart stops! :( I know that it's a natural part of the learning process to fall a lot, but I really think that these floors aren't soft enough for her to learn on, I seriously worry about the risk of concussion! So I'm not sure how to make a safe area for DD to play in, there's no chance of getting her to voluntarily stay on her foam playmat!

[scarletfestivefingernail]

Playpen Scream? Or one of those playpens that opens out and turns into a room divider? You get get a rug to go on the floor on the section she plays in and section the rest of the room off? I had a playpen for DS, it was quite roomy and I left him in it while I was in the kitchen or ironing. I've not got it out for DD because I probably wouldn't want to leave in her in it if DS was in the room but I wasn't. But I might get it out for when he returns to playgroup to give me more time to get on with stuff while he's not here. My new year resolution is to try and keep on top of the housework.

[Stacks]

Thank you for the welcome and advice. I'm on my phone again so will make this quite quick.

I gave sore nipple a break for one feed (so just fed from the other side twice in a row) and it helped a lot. I'm also using lansinoh, and have done since the first couple of feeds. I think in all I've been lucky, as my sore nipple only really had a couple of cracks and one line of blood. DS is a very eager and strong latcher though, so I have to be very careful when he goes on. That said, since yesterday he's been latching himself well with no help from me at all.

I think I'll leave the dummy idea for a while. See how he gets on over the next few days/weeks till DH is back to work. He's just very hard to settle if I move him at all after he's finished a feed. Going to try hot water bottle and a mum-smelling muslin in the crib first.

DH just brought me lunch. Going to eat and post again later.

[scarletfestivefingernail]

Just read my post back from last night and worried that it sounded bad.

Of course DS is asking me questions and getting me to show him how to do stuff all the time if I'm in the room with him. It's not like I ignore him! I just meant that sitting down and playing with him properly only occurs a couple of times a day mostly. Of course there are other days where we play a lot more and DH spends a lot of time playing at the weekend.

[DreamingOfAWhiteChristmas]

I'm one-handed mn ing and pushing boys so quick one...

I think developmentally they're not entertaining themselves well for long until 18mo plus. DD certainly wasn't, I did exactly as you do now scream except sometimes I'd put her in the sling and do a few jobs. She's getting pretty good at independent play now at nearly 28 months and its come naturally. Plus she has fantastic concentration through doing drawing/reading/1:1 activities and if she's not too tired she doesn't flit between things too much- I think that's helped by my stupid no tv policy too. She does watch after tea though, and is watching now with daddy as she won't nap but could do with it and dh is tired, so easy option.

The boys are crying quite a bit while o do stuff but still play independently more than DD ever did.

Be back need two hands to push up this hill...

[DreamingOfAWhiteChristmas]

Oh, and i wouldn't feel so bad if they could move if they'd got bored, its that they're stuck pretty much where they were put, for b anyway, with whatever I gave them, til whenever I get back...

[PetWoman]

Stacks I feel your pain with DS being difficult to settle. People recommend swaddling, hot water bottle etc and in my (limited!) experience they helped a bit, but generally my DS preferred to sleep on me. I cracked it by introducing a dummy at 6 weeks and only feeding him when he woke up, but we did have weight gain issues, maybe because of over-using the dummy? I think a lot of newborns don't 'get' sleeping solo for a while. And then they regress at 6 months and forget it again. I hope DH brings you food, drinks and the remote control while you cuddle the baby for days . :)

Dream I totally sympathise about your issue with leaving the boys to play while you do chores. I feel like my whole time at home is spent finding different places to leave DS while I do housework. I don't even get that much done! DS has loved visiting my parents because there was always someone there to pay attention to him. On the train home today he kept trying to talk to strangers and smile and interact with them, but of course nobody wanted to entertain him. I felt quite sorry for him, having his efforts rebuffed after a week of admiration. Anyway, I think we can only do our best, and at least yours have each other and DD to watch. Sometimes I wish we lived in a primitive village with lots of people to share childcare - though there'd be fewer toys, of course! But I'm starting to think that toys for babies are really invented to give adults a break, not for the babies' development.

[DreamingOfAWhiteChristmas]

pet, they totally are, I have moved to the Dark Side and use my jumperoo when it will hinder their development, not help it...

Total stereo screaming today, for ages. Dh and I both feeling down, and not just today. The boys weaning isn't going well, in fact its a bit of a disaster, sleeping is dire, b is back to two wake ups not one, we get no break from it/ them at all. Urgh. Your comment is exactly what I feel scream - " I find it really stressful to try and get anything done while looking after DD because she cries, so I've just stopped trying really" . Absolutely. Hence why i put them all to bed, then go round with my vacuum/new hand held one, sweep and mop floors, fold dry laundry and put in piles outside bedrooms etc. No time for me, but i don't know what else to do. As i said, they get left crying, mostly around tea time, and i find I'm stressed about it a lot every day.

Sorry for the whinge. I'm just letting off steam I think, and trying to see if I can think of any solutions...

Sure you're right about DT1 snacking in the day and filling up at night too pet but even feeding upstairs doesn't help so now what?!

And pet, I'd so have smiled and cooed at your ds on the train, poor little boy, and how sweet of him :)

My new years resolution will be feck the housework, enjoy the children more, try to go out with dh, try to get running again. try to lose the mummy tummy

[cakes82]

I'm sorry to go off topic but I want to ask your advice. It looks like I have to go back to my second (as and when) job as soon as I can get things sorted. (overdraft totally unhealthy no other way out) Anyway in order to go back to work I need to be able to leave DD with DH and no doubt she'll want milk. Options are express or buy formula and hope she'll use a bottle. She's 12weeks old if I was out for about 4 hours how much milk would I need to try and express?

Haven't figured out when I would fit expressing in but due to ending up slightly full on one side I managed to express about 2ozs tonight in not that long. (First time ever proper attempt so very impressed.) I may have been able to get more but I wasn't sure,,,

[musicalmrs]

Only a quick post as I'm at my parents, and just resettling Iz. Scream, we have wooden and tiled floors throughout the downstairs of my house, and no foam playmat (the fabric one became a risk when she crawled). Hoping to get a rug soon. I still let Iz play independently - she's learnt when she's standing up to shout at me if she wants to get down, as although she's pulling herself up on everything she can't get down again yet! She used to have a playtable at one side of the room that she'd crawl up to, pull herself up, and play for ages. I ended up having to leave her there at times as whenever I put her down she'd crawl straight there!
A playpen is a good idea...my route is just lazy parenting! She hasn't fallen down properly in ages though - her balance has improved lots and she's learnt how to break her fall. With our floors as they are, I had to come to terms with the fact there would always be some risks unless I baby proofed absolutely everything - something I wasn't willing to do!

[musicalmrs]

Cake, in 4 hours you might get away with her only needing one feed- perhaps just 4oz? I'd personally express more - maybe 8oz? - but store it in smaller 'portions', and have both available for the first time you're out. I know babies often don't eat so much when their mothers aren't around, but then Iz had about 12oz during the first day she spent alone with DH...

I used to be able to get 2/3oz in a go, now it's about 1 . I tend to do that over a few days, then put a whole 4oz 'serving' in a bag in the fridge. Have been out a few times recently (mainly to performances!) while DH has been babysitting, and have worked through the freezer supply without replenishing it.. oops..

Scarlet, I know what you meant!

Just realised my last post sounds like I just leave Iz to get on with things Scream! I don't, honest . I just don't hover beside/over her playing constantly, or play with her constantly. When my parents babysat her a month or so ago, when she was getting tired towards the end of the evening she just played on her own on her playmat for a half hour or so. My father played with her a bit, but she wasn't interested - just wanted to play with and chat to her toys!

[PetWoman]

Cakes I think about 3oz breast milk per feed is recommended - have a look at the Kellymom website (sorry can't link on my phone but I think you can google it) which has some really helpful stuff. Or Jaggy could advise as she is wise about these things. :) Boo to going back to work though. :(

Dream excellent resolutions. I think we should all adopt them except for the mummy tummy nonsense. I'm sorry things are still so tough for you. :( DS is off his food at the moment following a nasty bout of teething (I think - though no teeth to show for it yet). It's so stressful, especially since he wouldn't even breastfeed because of the pain. :( (Thank God he's nursing again now so I'm more comfortable.) And he hasn't pooed for 3 days. I may have to re-employ the lactulose... Anyway, you have worked hard enough now so I decree that 2013 will bring better things for the Dream household.

[PetWoman]

X-post Musical. Iz sounds amazing - both with her physical skills and the ability to entertain herself!

[ScreamIfYouStillBelieveInSanta]

I think baby-proofing seems so futile! Obviously I know we need to put away wires and obvious hazards, but I think there are still so many hazards that can't be managed. For example little A is constantly trying to pull herself up on things that aren't stable, or leaning on the gap between the door and the door frame (where the hinges are), or finding tiny dangerous things on the floor that I hadn't noticed before! I'm not suggesting that it's not worth trying to baby-proof a little, I'm just having a whinge about how impossible it is to create a completely safe baby environment!

Musical luckily little A is very good at getting down as well as up, so she doesn't call me over to get down. Her problem is usually that she picks up a toy whilst standing, then lets go of the chair/coffee table/random object that was supporting her so that she can get both hands on the toy, and while she's focusing on the toy rather than her balance she will suddenly tip backwards and smack the back of her head hard on the wooden floor :(

Thanks for the playpen suggestion Scarlet I agree that would be the safest the option. In reality though I think little A wouldn't approve... I think she would just hang onto the edge of the playpen and scream at me until I let her out. The way she does in the cot. It's a good idea though.

Dream I know what you mean about having no time to yourself!! Same as you, as soon as I get little A to bed in the evening I then run around like a crazy person doing all the washing/cleaning/tidying and other boring housework I haven't got done during the day. Every time someone else picks up DD to play (my Mum/Sis/Dad etc) I immediately vanish and try to get 15 different things done before they come over to give DD back so they can get on with their own tasks. It's particularly hard atm because I can't even get washing etc done while DD naps - if I make any noise in our little flat while she's asleep she wakes straight away. In the evenings I always end up taking all my washing etc out of the flat and into the main house so I can get it all cleaned without waking her So silly.

Well it's been a long stressful night here, having a heart-to-heart with my parents and DH. Sigh. My parents ostensibly wanted to discuss our living arrangements for the next few months, but as it turns out they mainly wanted to try to somehow nag us into getting back together Babies do better in two-parent households don't you know? Irrespective of how bitterly those two parents fight apparently. Have you thought about how this decision will affect little A? No Dad, it hadn't' even crossed my mind, do you think she'll notice? If you really wanted to make it work you'd be fine. Silly me! Why didn't I think of that?! I should just click my heels together three times and wish really hard for a happy marriage! Sigh. I know they mean well I think but it's just so frustrating!!!

[ScreamIfYouStillBelieveInSanta]

D'oh! That post was so long and interrupted so many times, that I x-posted with loads of people! Sorry!

Cakes I used the Kellymom site as a guide when figuring out how much expressed milk I needed for DD when I couldn't bf for 48 hours (following a sedation dental appointment). Here's the link I hope it helps.

I totally agree with everything Musical said about the expressing. Also, I'm v impressed with Iz's self-entertaining and knowing how to break her falls. Such a clever little lady!

Pet I hope your DS stops feeling all blocked up soon, poor little man.

[pommedechocolat]

We have internet! Yay. We also all seem to have a virus! Boo.

Still need to sort out cars and work out the whole city centre to nursery/school, office and back malarky...

scream - so sorry to hear about you and your dh. Frustrating of your parents to talk to you like that about it too. They mean well though. Parenting does not seem to ever get easier!

Dd1 was always good at entertaining herself, dd2 is rubbish but having dd1 around helps a bit in that respect. Unfortunately they 'play' by creating chaos so any housework I get done is offset by the mess they create that needs cleaning up.

[TooImmatureMincePies]

I have an iPhone! Bear with me as I work out how to post from it.

Am playing hookey - left M with Dh while I get him a birthday present. Am sitting in car outside shops playing with my new phone.

scream, sorry to hear things aren't working out with your Dh. Hope you're ok. We're here if you want to vent.

Dream, M spends a lot of time on the floor playing on her own! while I MN I do think it's ok, and it keeps me sane! [selfish mummy emoticon]

[Stacks]

Is this cluster feeding, or just settling issues/reassurance? T was feeding for 5-15m at a time, then sleeping for an hour or so. However last night and today he's been feeding for more like an hour each feed. He seems to fall asleep on the breast quite quickly (20m or so) but keep the nipple in his mouth and suckle intermittently over the next 40m or more. Each time giving a squirm and squeaks of protest.
If I do take the nipple out he tends to wake up, find it again, and settle back to feeding again.

[Stacks]

Sorry, that was very me me me, without even a hello! I'm typing one handed with an aching arm, around T's head while he's feeding.

I'll write a much nicer post if he ever spits out this nipple.