Do you think Labour DESERVES to get a majority in 2015?

[Isitmebut]

Bearing in mind Labour’s record in power, the salient features shown below; having inherited the best decade in 100-years to make important social changes, make provisions for pensioners, build enough homes and a sustainable economic model – what use is ‘a high tax and spend’ party, during a fragile global recovery and an approx £1,500,000,000,000 (£1.5 trillion) of Nation Debt????

Facts; Labour were the most spun media controlled and corrupt administration in living memory with ‘Blairs Labour cash for Lordships’ investigated by the police, Brown’s lowering of Capital Gains Tax to as low as 10% to attract party money from the City and MP expenses totally out of hand on THEIR watch and Labour’s Parliament Speaker Michael Martin running the show, now a peer for his ‘services’ to MP’s expenses.

Pro EU without trusting the people to vote… pro open door immigration from 2004 for personal gain AND without increasing home building to make room …with 580,000 under 25-year olds here already unemployed... pro flat lining State Education rather than raise standards…pro needless laws/police State with more legislation passed in their 13-years than the previous 100-years… pro Human Rights Act in 1998 causing so many ‘rights’ for criminals/terrorists problems.

Pro MRSA/C.Diff killer germ infested NHS hospitals hiring more managers than nurses.. pro saddling hospitals and schools with 25-year plus Private Finance Initiative debts….pro 24-hour drinking, gambling and declassifying drugs….pro expensive quangos costing over £70 bil a year to run.. pro expensive to run local government (with non jobs) leading to Council Tax hikes up 110% on their watch..

Pro raiding private personal pensions from 1998, including private sector companies to near final salary extinction...pro screwing state pensioners with derisory annual State pension e.g. 75p in 2000….pro raising the lower band tax rate to screw the poor in 2007…pro sale of 40% of UK gold reserves under $300 an ounce versus $1.900 high…..pro relaxation of banking regulation to dangerous levels pre financial crash..…pro sending 1 million of our manufacturing jobs elsewhere by 2005 BEFORE the crash

Pro lying to go to war and without equipping soldiers with basic kit and helicopters... ….pro nuclear energy to stop lights going off in 2015, but didn’t get around to building any.…pro defence/Trident, who knows, let someone else get around to it….and leaving us less domestic food production secure than in 1997.

With a balanced budget by 2002 having adopted 1997 Tory spending plans, pro unbalanced economy = ANNUAL budget deficit of £157 bil a year in 2010 and national debt of £1.5 trillion by 2015 needing unpopular austerity, or go the way of bankrupt Greece…….pro equality but left power in 2010 with more inequality than in 1997.

And finally as mentioned in their 2010 manifesto, were planning MORE fat government, MORE national debt, LESS inefficiency cuts and INCREASED taxes to all to pay for their incompetence (that would kill any economic growth), they cynically never got around to DETAILING in any detail to fool their voters – and it clearly has.

[Tortoiseturtle]

I see what you're saying, bigdog. Let's bring the Brown Shirts back. Time to polish up those swastika badges.

[bigdog888]

Well, I wouldn't quite go that far.

[Tansie]

I think a major ishoo facing the Tories is that for all the boasting about 'unemployment being down', for all the numbers wheeled out to demonstrate that The Tory Way is the Right Way; we here on the ground see zero hours contracts, increased costs of living as the screws are kept on our wage packets; we see emasculated employment and health & safety laws to make us more afeared for our jobs; We see that the tax payer is still expected, via tax credits, to make up the shortfall in wages for the lowest paid so the companies who employ them don't have to; We see house price rises touted as being 'proof' that we're all richer (rather than being educated towards a reality: that out of control house-prices was a major factor of what got us into this mess!- and the unfettered access the world's non-dom super-rich have to our housing stock that is at the top of the pyramid); we see company Boardrooms taking home ever higher multiples of their average worker's pay-packet in remuneration; we see bankers not only going unpunished for their role in the crash, but actually pocketing bigger bonuses than they did before the crash! We saw an Education Minister who seemed determined to ensure that only DC in the private sector could get into the better universities having not had their education screwed with, every year.

Basically, we witness a government that genuinely seems hell bent on feathering the nests of the Haves over the rest of us.

So it's not that Labour deserves a majority, it's just that the Tories deserve to lose, having failed to take the majority of the rest of us along for the alleged Recovery Ride.

[niceguy2]

I'd like to point out that tax credits were an abomination that Labour introduced that had the unintended consequence of subsidising employers. You can't blame the Tories for that for if they tried to scrap it now there'd literally be blood on the streets. The best we can hope for is a gradual erosion of the benefit.

I don't think this government has been great. They've shied away at taking the really tough decisions and Cameron is simply out of touch with what people really think & feel.

That said look at the alternative. What have the Two Eddies been heralding this week? Mansion tax to raise a few billion for the NHS and raising the minimum wage to £8.

So basically his grand plan to save the NHS is to chuck more money at it. £2.5 billion. Sounds a lot but in reality about 2% increase. Sure it's better than a kick up the bum but I don't think it's enough to "Save the NHS" as they're claiming.

But wait....Didn't Blair & Brown pump a SHIT load of money into the NHS including a £46 BILLION pound project to upgrade the NHS IT. Where did that money go? Erm...no idea but the project was an utter shambles and a decade later what's changed? Nothing.

The reality is that the NHS don't need MORE money. They need to spend the money they have more wisely.

The problem I see is that Labour are still wedded to the idea that the answer to every problem is to chuck a bit more money at it.

The £8 minimum wage? Pfft. Again by 2020, the minimum wage probably wouldn't have been far off anyway. Another gimmick.

[WetAugust]

No They dont deserve to win.

Balls still doesn't understand why he cocked it up last time.

Their Shadow minister for pensions could not state thevalue of a State Pension yesterday when asked on the BBC to state how much it curently was. How will she be able to judge if it's too high / low if she hasn't even bothered to find out how much it is. Incredible oversight.

What on earth has happened to Angy Burnham's hair? It looks like a disaster with the Grecian 2000 or he's has it replaced with a plastic Lego mans hairstyle. Anyway, the NHS was not safe in their hands as many grieving relative in Staffs and the who suffered from the other filthy dangerous hospitals will tell you - including one of their own former MPs Ann Clywd.

Ed completely forgot a large chink of his speech and missed out the bits about immigration and deficit reduction. He did however remmeber to tell us that he had met someone called Elizabeth - who just happened to be at Conference and that he'd also met Colin the plumber and Labout central Office had rung Colin to tell him that he would feature in E's speech. I wonder how they got Colin's phone number?

One of the Scottish labour MPs sat there stony faced when challenged by Andrew Neil and was unable to justify why he had voted for increased tuition fees for English students while his won Scottish constituents receive free tuition.

No, the Labour Party are currently a shambles with no real policies (their 6 pledges were total fuzzy crap) no vision and a bunch of 2nd rate luvvies with little idea of how the real world works. But at least Ed has met another 'ordinary human being' Shame it's such a rare occurrence that felt he had to tell Conference about it.

I hope the electorate will take a good look at Mr Bean and decide they cannot imagine him representing the UK on the world stage. If he is elected all will not be lost as it will b absolutely hilarious to watch him bumble through 5 years in office.

[Tansie]

Q: niceguy :I'd like to point out that tax credits were an abomination that Labour introduced that had the unintended consequence of subsidising employers. You can't blame the Tories for that for if they tried to scrap it now there'd literally be blood on the streets. The best we can hope for is a gradual erosion of the benefit.

Now, remind me, how many years have the Coalition been in power? 'I can't blame the Tories for that'?? Why would there be 'blood on the streets'? Whose blood, exactly? And why 'abomination'? By that, do you mean 'They should have forced employers to pay a living wage?' Yes, of course they should have.

A 'gradual erosion' of tax credits? Why not just abolish them? As in 'you pay your workers enough to live on'?

Q:"The reality is that the NHS don't need MORE money. They need to spend the money they have more wisely." Yes. And no. Wisely. Actually, do you have any idea how much NHS money has been spent on hiring outside consultants to put them straight? Outside, PRIVATE sector consultants, from Big Business who thought it was oh-so-obvious? Til they recognised that you can't run the NHS like a meat factory? Took their (££) money, stayed 3 months, published their blue-sky, out-of-the-box, pushing-the-envelope thinking 'plans'... then left? In my Trust, I could name them personally. Loooong gone. 'Cos it's too hard.

I do not deny that the NHS IT project was doomed from the outset. Sounded good. Great soundbite- but no need for it. Remembering that New Labour was lead by a Boys Club member...

The issue is that with many 'problems', the solution is to intelligently spend money on it. Like, a massive input into the futures of DC born into 'suboptimal' backgrounds (SureStart) so as to make them better future socially integrated, financially active adults and therefore maybe, as an aside, discourage the mindless production of effectively unplanned, unwanted DC themselves. Result. Though not cheap.

Q:'The £8 minimum wage? Pfft. Again by 2020, the minimum wage probably wouldn't have been far off anyway. Another gimmick.' What has 2020 got to do with it??? Six years hence?? What? And try saying 'Pfft' to minimum wage earners (not people entirely supported by benefits!) who are trying to support families on inadequate wages, their employers safe in the knowledge that the rest of us are making up their pay to a 'living wage'. Reprehensible.

Finally- I hope you, niceguy genuinely understand what non-socialised medicine looks like. Like so many, I believe you have no idea.

[Tansie]

Wet- if you think dangerous under-staffing in the NHS was a Labour problem you need to ask yourself what the Coalition (HOW many years in power??) has done towards addressing this and not be too disappointed to realise the answer is Absolutely Nothing.

[WetAugust]

Totally agree with you. You're lecturing someone who has seen the management consultant waste at first hand.

[Viviennemary]

Labour have really lost the plot. Miliband hasn't an earthly chance of a labour victory and since he isn't going before the election they might as well concede defeat now.

[CoreyTrevorLahey]

They are done in Scotland. Which makes me sad as I'm lifelong Labour, but I'm with the Greens from now on.

For the UK as a whole, I would still prefer them to have a majority over a Tory/Ukip coalition. Well, fuck it, I'd prefer a Kim Kardashian/Gary Busey coalition to Tories/UKIP.

[WetAugust]

I think the Scots will vote Labour just to punish the English

I still think Labour will get in as the die hard supporters would vote for a donkey such as Ed. It's going to be very embarrassing to see him in those photo shoots with world leaders

[Chipstick10]

Omg Ed MIlliband on the world stage. He is a total numpty who makes me cringe to my very core. He's Len Mcluskys poodle. It's going back to class war and the politics of envy all over again.

[Viviennemary]

He's certainly one of the old Labour dinosaurs in disguise. He won't get in. Of that I am totally convinced. In fact until they come up with something new Labour are finished for the time being. IMHO of course.

[WetAugust]

I think he will get in. He's leading in the polls and he Tories are doing a good job of alienating their anti EU members.

I can't see how he will fail to be elected. He'd had to so something really bad to lose now.

We need to invite him to Sheffield.

are you allllllriiiiiiiiggghhhht?

[Tansie]

Hmm, I think 'the politics of envy' is an unfortunate slight. How about 'the politics of entrenched inequality'?

See, the problem the Tories have is that they can trumpet 'growth' all they like, but all that really means is 'Die-hard Tory voters, the vast majority of whom have never known want due to a fortunate accident of birth, have resumed 'service as usual'; more or less untouched by that unfortunate little service blip'. Of course, to achieve that, they've managed to get people to believe that a) The Crunch was caused by those greedy nurses and teachers wanting the pension they paid into, as opposed to those marvellous bankers on whom our economy apparently depends (bonus, anyone?); b) the proles fighting amongst themselves so they believe that everyone on benefits is a lazy bastard; c) everyone on minimum wage deserves to be, and d) The Recovery is dependent on relaxing labour and health and safety laws. Zero hours contracts, anyone?

Somehow, 'growth' hasn't trickled down to the vast majority of us, yet, oddly, The Haves seems to be 'as you were'.

That's why Labour will win.

[Chipstick10]

Oh he will definitely get in and he will be our PM . It's unbelievable. He's a total shite as well the way he stabbed his bro in the back. The way the boundaries are drawn the TOries have a much harder job of winning a majority. Labour only need to appeal to their core voters and they will get in on that alone. They don't really need to reach out to the wider voter. I shan't be voting. No one speaks for me they are all self serving shites

[Numanoid]

I don't any of the 'big three' (Labour, Conservatives, Lib Dems) deserve to be in power. But no doubt we'll be looking at a Labour or Conservative (coalition at least) Government after the next General Election. :(

[Numanoid]

*I don't think...

[Tansie]

"Labour only need to appeal to their core voters and they will get in on that alone." -um- isn't that Democracy? Isn't that as 'wide' as they need to go, a majority? Bearing in mind our current government doesn't enjoy that!

[lecherrs]

"In 1997 Labour inherited few problems, and got the UK dancing to “Things Can Only Get Better” and pre serious immigration in 2004, in a backdrop of low GLOBAL inflation and falling interest rates, with an economy fuelled by Government and Consumer spending/debt – for most voters things did get better, as few realised the economic and social structural problems that were building up, to come apart at the first recession."

I take it Conservatives must have missed the point about the economic and structural problems that were mounting up too - as in 2007, George Osborne Pledged to not only match Labour spending but to increase it from £615 billion to £674 billion if they were successful in the next election.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6975536.stm

So if they were so savvy about Labour's overspending why did they promise to do exactly the same - or is George Osbourne just a bare faced liar??


By the way, OP you lost me once you started quoting from the daily fail.

[Isitmebut]

Lecherrs …… I’m assuming that you cannot disagree with my OP summary with paragraph after paragraph of Labour’s ABYSMAL record of 13-years in office, 10-years in ‘times of plenty’ – or does anyone quoting the Daily Mail allow you to go into denial and when voting for Labour, sleep at nights?

Maybe if Labour and their supporters had read the The Daily Mail from the early 2000’s on their direction of the economy, questioning immigration was actually racist, homebuilding etc etc, they wouldn’t have made so many mistakes and been kicked out earlier.

Re the economic and structural problems building up under Labour, is this a sad attempt to blame Osborne for the ‘clunking fist’ economic policies and mantra ‘I’ll only borrow to invest’, we are still trying to work out WHAT IN???

Brown in order to dispel ‘Old Labour’ high tax and badly spend reputations before and get elected in 1997, was forced to adopt the Conservative Deficit Reduction plan back then, to at least BALANCE our spending in the early 2000’s, which he did and it balance I believe in 2000/1.

But in order to win the NEXT election, Brown went on a spending splurge, mainly backed up by the increasing tax receipt of the City, speculation and consumption, and partially on Brown annually borrowing over £30 bil a year, INCREASING the National Debt, rather than starting to pay it off. To see the extent of Brown’s increased spending on fat government and waste, establishing massive UK ‘fixed costs’ - and understand WHY Brown passed over a £157 bill annual spending deficit - read the following link.
www.economicshelp.org/blog/5509/economics/government-spending-under-labour/

Re Osbornes spending announcement in 2007, I firstly assume that the subject would have come up at Budget time in May(?), the financial crash did not even begin until September to October 2007, the OVERSPENDING from 2001 had already been done, the Uk ‘fixed costs’ ingrained – so by all means provide a link to what he said he’d spend it on, but I’ll assume it was to compensate on Labour’s nation of quangos and apparatchiks and get some money to the ‘front line’ of services.

P.S. Osbourne in opposition had no idea how unbalanced the economy, or high the Structural Deficit was, and after 13-years in office, clearly nether did Brown/Darling, as Labour REFUSED to give the electorate details in 2010, 3-years later, of how they were fund their ‘no need for change’ deficit, and economy.

[Isitmebut]

Tansie …… re your democracy comment; there is ‘Democracy’ and democracy in South America (or similar) banana republics, led by El –Presedenti dictators, fixing the ballot box.

The electoral boundaries AS IS, means a Labour Party with 35% of the vote has over a 60 seat parliamentary MAJORITY (as in 2005), yet a Conservative Party with around 36% of the vote is a MINORITY government with 20-seats short – so we have an undemocratic situation where a Labour Party with less votes than the Conservatives could insist we stay in Europe without a Referendum.

But they are not happy with that electoral ‘loading’ of the ballot box, with or without up to 59 Scottish constituencies MP’s voting on English laws, when English MP’s don’t vote on theirs.

Labour in 2010 as now, wants 16-year olds to vote, knowing they are socially aware, but not aware of Labour’s abysmal record delivering it, while leaving the country in a complete mess when they leave power.

Labour in the early 2000’s for some reason, a few years before the EU opened it’s borders to over 500 million European’s, decided to increase NON EU citizens WHO COULD VOTE IN GENERAL ELECTIONS, when EU citizens could not.

“Million foreign voters could sway result of next general election, warns report”

“A million Commonwealth citizens living in England and Wales should be stripped of the right to vote because they. could significantly influence the outcome of the next general election, according to a new report”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10268870/Million-foreign-voters-could-sway-result-of-next-general-election-warns-report.html

“MigrationWatch UK said the general public would be “astonished” to learn how many non-Britons are permitted to take part in elections.”

“The group, which campaigns for tighter immigration, said it was a “hangover from the days of Empire” that citizens from 54 independent sovereign states, including Australia, Canada and India, can register on the electoral roll as long as they have an address in Britain.”

“MigrationWatch’s report said: “One possible reason why Lord Goldsmith’s report was largely ignored by the Labour government of the day is that voters from black and minority ethnic communities, some of whom will be Commonwealth citizens, are far more likely to vote Labour than Liberal Democrat or Conservative.”


“A report last year by the Runnymede Trust showed 68 per cent of black and Asian people backed Labour in the last general election, said the study, which also suggested the Commonwealth vote could be influential in the referendum on European Union membership.”


This link below will explain why NON EU citizens coming here increased significantly and the increased LABOUR VOTERS was not an accident; it was AN UNANNOUNCED Labour Policy.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html

The link/example below shows in figures, the annual average of Commonwealth and Other, according to the link below on Table 1, in the 1990’s, was around 86,000 each section.

Yet in the 2000’s this changed significantly, as looking at just the years 2004 and 2005, when EU immigration was expected and was much larger than expected, Commonwealth and Other figures WE HAD CONTROL OVER were combined at around DOUBLE those immigrants from the EU.

In 2004 (arriving) EU 130,000……Commonwealth 215,000 ….Other 155,000
In 2005 (arriving) EU 152,000.….Commonwealth 180,000 ….Other 137,000
migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-and-uk

So Tansie, when pro EU Labour’s Miliband gets into power in 2015, god knows how much more Labour will load the electoral dice to ensure Labour stays in for the next decade at least.

[Behoove]

No, they don't deserve it.

They may achieve it through people voting tactically to try and remove Conservatives or SNP (in Scotland obv) but not through their own policies or actions.

[honeysucklejasmine]

I can't see that any of them deserve it. Traditionally I'm a Tory voter... But I was a teacher too, so can't really vote for them again. (DCs tactical removal of Gove was too little to late. Especially as he thinks he did a good job.) However, I refuse to vote labour and I'm not fond of the lib dems either. Its not going to be an easy decision.

[wafflyversatile]

Do you think the Tories deserve to win, OP?


What's the saying? The opposition don't win elections, the govt lose them.

Not that the Tories did win the last election despite so many years of Labour being in power and so many people being sick of them.


I very much doubt your first FACT can possibly be true now, if it ever was, not with this current govt in power.