If God exists, why all the suffering and evil in the world?

[MexicanMarissa]

Hello :-)

I believe in God and am thinking about returning to church, but if God really exists why all the suffering and svil in the world such as the tsunami, poverty, murder and rape?

[rickman]

Message withdrawn

[mumfor1sttime]

QOQ-People who believe in religion or cult followings have to be there to start the war. The bible cant sprout legs and start a war.

[QueenOfQuotes]

a) not all wars were started by religious people

b) the MAJORITY of relgious people in the world haven't, and never would, start any wars!

[mumfor1sttime]

We are all entitled to our opinion and I respect your beliefs. Only I believe that a majority of wars, conflifts, disputes and political issues are in some way related to religion.

[QueenOfQuotes]

The majority of the wars raging in Africa at the moment certainly weren't started about war - most of them are civil/tribal disputes.

And if it's true that religion causes wars then the WHOLE world should be at war with itself....

Number of adherents These are religious bodies in which at least 30% of their world membership live outside the "core country" (country with the largest number of members).


Catholic Church 1,100,000,000
Sunni Islam 875,000,000
Eastern Orthodox Church 225,000,000
Anglican Communion* 76,000,000
Assemblies of God 50,000,000
Jehovah's Witnesses 15,597,746
Seventh-day Adventists 12,894,005
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 12,275,822
New Apostolic Church 10,260,000
Ahmadiyya 10,000,000
Bahai World Faith 6,000,000

[juicychops]

If there was no suffering in the world, there would be no compassion

that was on a film i watched this morning. The reply was... "tell that to the suffering"

[mumfor1sttime]

QOQ- I'm not saying all religous people are out to cause war, just that in most cases wars and religion go hand in hand (which is a shame). World war 2 wasn't a war about religion, but millions of Jews were wiped out because of their religous beliefs, Yugoslavia was a battle for territory but differing religions slaughtered each other due to their beliefs, the current 'War on Terror' - most people will argue this is about oil. Most fanatical muslims will tell you its 'jihad' against the west....
Lets not forget the little incident a while back in history called the 'crusades'....

Agreed, not ALL wars are about religion but most are related in some way.

[QueenOfQuotes]

but doesn't the fact that a large proportion of the worlds population class themselves as 'adherents' to a religion tell you that religion doesn't nessecarily cause wars???

If that was true - we'd all be killing each other in the UK as we have a VERY high proportion of different beliefs practiced here!

[mumfor1sttime]

[mumfor1sttime]

QOQ-Yes this is true, we have a lot of different beliefs in this country- but we also have a good police force compared to some other countries and a greater sense of social responsability.

[QueenOfQuotes]

What's the police force got to do with anything??? If people want to cause riots they cause riots, have a good police force has got NOTHING (imo) to do with the fact that 99.99% of the 'religious' population of this country live perfectly happily together!

[mumfor1sttime]

Without a good Police Force, and a good Government this country would descend into religious anarchy.

[bloss]

Message withdrawn

[mumfor1sttime]

I choose not to follow a religion, this is how I was brought up, that is my background of belief. I guess I find it hard to understand why God would let things like Cancer kill good people and but bad, nasty people of the world get to live. To me life is life then it ends. I am not here to offend, just voicing my opinion.

[Tortington]

good for you mumfor1sttime - voice away it lovely to hear other views. after all if we didn't i would go around think i was perpetually right, as of course i am.

religeous anarchy is an interesting point though and not one worth dismissing. i agree that to allow our freedom to practice religeon we do need a good political and police system.

would we decline into religeous anarchy without it? - i think a lot would be racial hatred which would be masked behind religeon as it often is.

[QueenOfQuotes]

"i think a lot would be racial hatred which would be masked behind religeon as it often is."

I agree most would probably be racial hatred - I've seen "Christians" (and I use the term losely in these circumstances) being racist towards other races.........who are also Christians!

[mumfor1sttime]

Thanks custardo! I could waffle on about this subject forever it is something which interests me I guess.

[Papillon]

Elements of break-away, fringe and/or extreme religious faith could be seen as religious anarchy
This newsletter... Christian based, defines change even within the church structure and terms it as prophetic.

With history as a guideline, religious crusades against communities of other faiths is anarchy or the shorter name... war. Whilst western thought has frequently romantised tribal lifestyles that frequently are guided by belief structures of religion or deity... they more often than not are aggressive and violent against those who do not conform to tribal ways and values. Still our governments seem pretty good at warmonger... some of us just get the televised version and don´t have to live it.

So if we had no government (which still has lots of religious influence though) religious beliefs as the ´other value´structure predominant, would I imagine begin to attempt bringing religous order. I think I mentioned something similar on the ´do you belief in God´ thread that ran awhile back... (which strangely seems to be empty???... Is that the case for anyone else? HERE that before political rule in the UK, bloodshed and religious control went hand in hand.

Anyway to get back to topic abit... I agree with Duranfan´s post about joy and sorrow being intertwined in response to pain and suffering.

The chapter on love in The Prophet , by Kahlil Gibran speaks of suffering and evil in the world.
I belief also we live on Planet Earth not Godly Earth and that we are not sufficiently spiritually evolved enough, to live beyond death and destruction. So it remains our teacher. I think it is not a matter of being convinced that God is Love and will save us... we need to move on this ourselves... here on this planet.

Not quite the Christian response you are perhaps wishing for MexicanMarissa... another voice of opinion and some thoughts for offering.

[Papillon]

well you have all been posting in the meantime whilst I wrote my short novelette!

Waffle away mumfor1sttime! and lol Custardo... I am perfect too don´t you know... I always think fondly upon that song.. Oh lord its hard to be humble by Kenny Rogers

[NomDePlume]

TBH, the question used as the thread title is the primary reason for me being an Athiest. It may seem simplistic but the question encompasses a lot more complex issues, for me anyway.

FWIW, The 'free will' argument sounds like a bit of a cop out to me, and still doesn't sufficiently explain why INNOCENT humans suffer so enormously in this world.

I think religion is more about faith than facts, so the 'facts' often do not matter to those with faith, IYSWIM

[mumfor1sttime]

Papillion- what are your views on christenings? I do not agree with these as I believe my ds should have a right to choose if he wants to be christened.

[mumfor1sttime]

Agree ndp.

[Papillon]

Mum1sttime... I don´t belief in the necessity of Christenings, because I don´t follow Christianity. Naming ceremonies can be used if people want a ritual to welcome there child into the world. But I perfer not to tamper with anothers spiritual energy so newly born, to much control/dominion over another person. Unless their name is Damian and they make the ground shake or somthing!

NomDePlume what are your more complex issues then? You are abit brief - so could you perhaps explain abit more...?

Not sure if the free will comment was directed at me, or others. But I will respond to it - I belief in spiritual dimensions and free will. The more they are connected and explored upon, then its my feeling that more possibilities are available for less suffering. To just walk away in dismissal could also be seen as abandonment. As I mentioned above without knowing what the more complex issues are, then at least some form of exploration is worthwhile to persue.

Also life is a cycle, things die. Sometimes nicely, sometimes not. Most wild animals don´t die nicely, then again most domesticated or farmed ones don´t either.

[Heathcliffscathy]

i'm with you papillon.

i also think that the christian take it a little primitive. also we're not sure what christ actually taught or said as there is a lot of controversy around that no contemporary documentation survives, it's all written by fans after the fact.

if everything is illusion and a lesson to be learned, then surely this planet is the perfect schoolroom.

if the body is just energy made into matter, then what happens to it, is irrelevant in the end. if all of us are connected and linked at a basic level, what matters is how we treat each other and ourselves during our short spell here.

i was raised by a lapsed buddhist and a catholic. i think all religions have beauty at their core, but unfortunately the newer ones (islam, christianity for eg) have been subverted and are used for political control of for eg women.

suffering and happiness are two sides of the same coin. you can't have one without the other. you can't have love without hate, or attachment without loss.

i would rather suffer the horror of losing a loved one then never love them in the first place.

[mumfor1sttime]

Well said sophable.