"As a Christian..." followed by "I believe it is important to...be kind/not kill people/eat cheese/whatever"

[hunkermunker]

Does this phrase irk anyone else?

Like if you're not a Christian, you can't possibly hold such high moral standards?

[SqueakyPop]

Good tip, SG!

I find sharing the Peace is very therapeutic to relationships too.

[KayHarker]

well, I'll use the phrase in conversation to clarify where I'm coming from on a particular issue.

It's not so much 'As a Christian, I do this, therefore you don't and I am better'

It's more 'My motivation to do this is my faith, your motivation may well be different'

[bruxeur]

Kay - genuine interest here - the only reason you're kind and don't kill people is because you're a Christian?

[Kewcumber]

Does George Bush use the phrase much - just interested would love to know where he stands on the Bible and some of his practices eg cheese eating.

[GooseyLoosey]

Let me see...

As a Christian, do you believe:

that slaves should "submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh." (1 Peter 2:18); or

that women should be subservient to husbands "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands" (Ephesians 5:22-24);

the best discipline for children is beating them ""Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from hell" (Proverbs 23:13-14)?

Of course not. But if not, what then is this Christian morality or these Christian values that people refer to?

[KayHarker]

bruxeur, not in the least, and I wouldn't use the phrase in conjunction with those phrases (although, my 100% pro-life thing is largely down to my faith, so maybe technically the second one I would, but only in context).

I'm just trying to explain where it might be used in a way that wasn't meant to be 'superior'.

And to being drawn into any Christian-baiting based on selective quoting. So don't have the patience for that today.

[Tortington]

i can't take the pinch of salt offered
as a catholic it will raise my blood pressure

[GooseyLoosey]

Kay - wasn't intending to bait Christians. I realise that you can find a quote to support almost anything in the Bible. That was my point really.

[bruxeur]

Kay, when you say "selective quoting", are you referring to mine or Goosey's?

I'm afraid that objecting to the Bible being "selectively quoted" does smack of a smorgasbord/options list to faith...

Hmmm - I'll take a large order of compassion, with a side of humility, but hold the subjugation of women and the corporal punishment.

Or am I being unfair?

Because you sound as if you're "selectively following" Christianity...

[Tortington]

i can selectively do what i want.

and i do.

[IorekByrnison]

I can see what you mean but it's a long way down my list of irksome things. I've certainly never heard this used to express moral superiority. I have always taken it to be about explaining Christian values rather than implying any exclusivity over those values.

You often hear it said with regard to the environment for example - something along the lines of having a duty to look after the earth because it is God's creation. I can't imagine for a moment that any Christian saying this believes that you can't be an environmentalist without being a Christian - it is said I think more to reinforce the idea that there is a moral imperative there which has a connection to the person's faith.

[bruxeur]

Well yes of course you can Custy - but you'd have to expect to be called on the hypocrisy as well, surely?

[Tortington]

yeah what iorek said

what annoys me is the automatic presumtion you're NOT a christian.

" as a christian...."

[AMumInScotland]

If you look through the words of the Nicene Creed - perhaps you'll be able to find where it says that as Christians we have to believe literally in every word of the Bible? Because I've recited it really quite often, and I don't think it says that.

So "selectively following" the Bible, is not the same as "selectively following" Christianity.

[Tortington]

why is it hypocritical?

[bruxeur]

Well, it's like vegetarians who eat bacon, or Muslims who drink when they're away from their parents - either follow the religion or don't, but don't play at it.

AMIS - are you saying that the Creed is the important bit of Christianity, and the Bible itself is a kind of magic reference book, with which you can support any facet of your argument with selected verse, and fob off any counterargument with the line
"well we don't have to believe in literally every word in it, you know"?

[IorekByrnison]

Bruxeur you asked if you were being unfair. Well, yes. Obviously. Your concept of religion is bonkers.

[Tortington]

no its not like htat at all.

its not a - do what you suggest - or am not really a Catholic.

its really not all or nothing. there is a huge inbetween.

[AMumInScotland]

Yes I am saying that the Creed is the important bit of Christianity.

The Bible is a collection of writings which were put down to describe humanity's relationship with God. It is therefore something to be read, interpreted, and learnt from. But it cannot be used as a simple "reference book" because it was never intended to be used in that way - different books were written by different people in different situations.

That is where the "interpretation" comes in - Christians have to decide which parts of it were intended as instructions for all Christians at all times, and which were specific to the circumstances they were written in.

[Greyriverside]

A dictionary could be used like that too. You could pick out words 245,1117,42 and 35 and decide to obey those and that might say "thou shalt burgle houses" and someone else could pick out the words "meat loaf is sinful"

[AMumInScotland]

Anglicans often refer to the "three-legged-stool" of Scripture, Tradition, and Reason - we are supposed to look at what the Bible says in the light of both what the church has taught over time, and also what our own reason (and experience) tells us. We should not rely completely on any of them, but consider how each informs the others.

That means we don't believe in something just because the Bible says it, or just because the church has always done it, or just because it's what we feel like, but we attempt to find a working policy by considering all three.

[KayHarker]

bruxeur, I was talking to Goosey in the last comment, should've been clearer.

Goosey, no, I know, I'm in a rotten temper today, pay me no mind. Anyway, like I say not up for this right now, judge me as you will. I'm quite well enough aware of how much I don't live up to my faith right now, ta very much.

[InLoveWithSweeneyTodd]

but do people really say those things??? I have never met anyone who said "as a christian, I..." I would find it very odd. Too much information. I never knew anyone who said that. Certainly not old christians. Are they maybe newly converted or converted for the wrong reasons? I don't know. I find people (except George Bush and Tony Blair who bring God into the speech as if it was their uncle Larry) are usually private, almost cagey, about their beliefs, especially if they are long-standing beliefs, and never heard anyone say such thing.

[GooseyLoosey]

Kay - hope things are better now. Have enjoyed reading your perspective on religion in the past and did not intend to offend.

[SixSpotBurnet]

I think that maybe instead of having AIBU threads we should have WWJD threads...