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Philosophy/religion

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Original poster

Is there an answer?

161 replies

bluekelebek · 03/12/2023 14:23

I wasn't raised religious, and tbh I dont know what/if I do believe in.. but is there an answer to - if there is a God, why is there so much suffering? Why do bad things happen to good people? Why do bad people seem to get on with life with no repercussions, regardless of thei actions?

OP posts:
Hermittrismegistus · 03/12/2023 14:35

Free will. If God were interfering all the time then we wouldn't have free will, we'd just be automatons.

FatFatMary · 03/12/2023 14:43

Free will doesn’t explain disease though. That could be related to the fall and original sin after Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but then that even doesn’t explain why animals suffer as well as humans

ErrolTheDragon · 03/12/2023 15:02

There's no answer which makes any rational sense whatever which is compatible with a god who is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent and also in any way 'loving'.

FestiveAuntFanny · 03/12/2023 15:34

There is a simple answer, just not a comforting one: there is no god, things happen randomly and there's no justice but imperfect human justice.

Anything else is a fairytale that people tell themselves to feel better.

Personally I have found that facing up to this doesn't make life meaningless, or lacking in spirit and wonder, or a desire to make things better and to live up to a code of morals. It just puts the onus for those things where it belongs - on us.

Kdtym10 · 03/12/2023 15:47

It’s a question that’s been asked repeatedly over the centuries. Various answers inc

Free will
part of Gods plan
to test people
to punish people
God isn’t a personal god and doesn’t interfere with man
God contains everything inc suffering, if creation is a method by which God experiences himself, creation must include suffering
Suffering as a negative experience is a human perspective not one god shares

theres also been lots of other suggestions over the years but the above are the main ones

IHS · 03/12/2023 16:44

We're not promised an easy, comfortable life. Our lives are just a transient state that will soon pass and then we move onto our home and hopefully be with God.

Many of the Church Fathers and Saints had terrible lives and suffered with illness and pain and even execution, but they accepted it as part of life. God isn't a magician who can conjure up an easy and fun ride for us. Suffering is part of life and can teach us things. People will say that this isn't fair, but life isn't supposed to be fair either.

I'm not being glib when I say these things. I had a terrible upbringing, suffered major bereavement at a young age and have had painful physical illness all my life. I never blamed God. It was what it was and it's helped make me into the person that I am today.

FizzingAda · 03/12/2023 17:53

But nothing can explain the suffering of animals.

Cookiesandbeans · 03/12/2023 18:40

It’s easier to explain this if you believe in the afterlife . People who do bad things in this life might get away with it now but in the end there will be consequences but not here on earth . A lot of people believe life on earth only exists for us to learn different lessons and is part of something much bigger .

I’ve not heard this explanation but lately I’ve started to think that it might be the devil who’s behind all evil things here on earth. If you believe in God you have to also believe in the devil .

I’m struggling to understand a lot of things religious people say and I’m not sure what to believe . Unfortunately a lot of things being said in the church seem unmodern . I think it’s important to have discussions like this and to be open minded and kind to people.,

ErrolTheDragon · 03/12/2023 20:00

FizzingAda · 03/12/2023 17:53

But nothing can explain the suffering of animals.

Or little children.

ErrolTheDragon · 03/12/2023 20:03

I’ve not heard this explanation but lately I’ve started to think that it might be the devil who’s behind all evil things here on earth. If you believe in God you have to also believe in the devil .

A fully dualistic belief system such as Zoroastrianism might make more sense to you.

But no gods at all make more, imo.

IHS · 03/12/2023 20:14

FizzingAda · 03/12/2023 17:53

But nothing can explain the suffering of animals.

Animals suffer as a result of The Fall just as everyone else does. The whole world suffers. It isn't punishment, it's a consequence.

Sorciere1 · 03/12/2023 20:58

Reincarnation makes sense. I'm a pagan and believe along with Pythagoras we evolve to a godlike state, so I have a care for animal suffering and try to be vegan. (80% successful)

Christianity did get the concept of the devil from Zoroastrianism which is dualistic as the previous poster pointed out and makes more sense to me if you want to go that way.

FizzingAda · 03/12/2023 21:49

Animals have no concept of right or wrong and cannot be held accountable for the failings of humans.

Original poster
bluekelebek · 03/12/2023 21:58

@Cookiesandbeans this is the one I hear the most. This life is a test and the rewards are in the afterlife.. I dont know what to believe.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 03/12/2023 22:25

Animals suffer as a result of The Fall just as everyone else does. The whole world suffers. It isn't punishment, it's a consequence.

Not a consequence that could be dreamed up by an entity who was benevolent, omnipotent and omniscient.Hmm makes no sense whatever that innocent animals - and children - should suffer as a consequence of humans having free will and 'fallen'. The whole doctrine of the Fall and 'original sin' is nasty.

granstable · 03/12/2023 23:19

We are all God because we enjoy the concept of choice and free will. If we treat others, including all organisms on Earth, as we would be treated ourselves as far as we can then we have succeeded and can die with a clear conscience.
(Eg. If I live in a third world country and an elephant is eating the food I need to survive then I am entitled to survive. If I live in a first world country then I have no justification to kill an elephant and I should do my best to help a person in a third world country to not need to kill an elephant. Similarly we should help the elephant to not need to raid the crops and so on.)

Nature is a balance and humans have evolved in a way that has upset that balance, ie. we have evolved into gods and we should accept the responsibility that our position involves.

FatFatMary · 04/12/2023 05:17

It’s as if god can’t control what happens on earth. Also I wonder about Yahweh and Allah and whether they are different gods

Kdtym10 · 04/12/2023 10:14

FatFatMary · 04/12/2023 05:17

It’s as if god can’t control what happens on earth. Also I wonder about Yahweh and Allah and whether they are different gods

Edited

Well I think it’s common thought amongst most scholars now that Yahweh had a different origin to El (which is probably linked etymology wise to Allah).

FatFatMary · 04/12/2023 11:07

Kdtym10 · 04/12/2023 10:14

Well I think it’s common thought amongst most scholars now that Yahweh had a different origin to El (which is probably linked etymology wise to Allah).

Show quote history

Interesting. I’m reading that El is Yaweh’s father

Cookiesandbeans · 04/12/2023 13:31

@ErrolTheDragon thanks I googled Zoroastrianism and this quite resonates with me :

At its core, Zoroastrianism emphasizes a never-ending battle between good and evil — a contest between the religion’s God, Ahura Mazda, and an evil spirit, Ahriman. Believers have the freedom to make good or bad choices; they were exhorted by Zoroaster to think good thoughts, say good words and do good deeds.
Scholars say these tenets and other aspects of Zoroastrianism had significant influence on other religions, notably Christianity, Islam, Judaism and Buddhism.
“You have these ideas that have fundamentally shaped Western society,” said Jamsheed Choksy, a professor of Central Eurasian Studies at Indiana University. “Fighting the good fight, a purpose of existing to do good, to make the world flourish, to work together, to respect and love each other … all that goes back to Zarathustra.”

However I don’t believe in a judgmental God ( that’s also something mentioned by the profet Zarathustra). Also some weird rules like not being allowed to wear glasses (?). Like a said in my previous post a lot of stuff related to religion is strange and old fashioned and doesn’t make any sense .

Kdtym10 · 04/12/2023 15:17

FatFatMary · 04/12/2023 11:07

Interesting. I’m reading that El is Yaweh’s father

Show quote history

Yes that is
part of the story of the development of Yahweh when he was incorporated into the Canaanite pantheon

FallingStar21 · 04/12/2023 22:37

Kdtym10 · 03/12/2023 15:47

It’s a question that’s been asked repeatedly over the centuries. Various answers inc

Free will
part of Gods plan
to test people
to punish people
God isn’t a personal god and doesn’t interfere with man
God contains everything inc suffering, if creation is a method by which God experiences himself, creation must include suffering
Suffering as a negative experience is a human perspective not one god shares

theres also been lots of other suggestions over the years but the above are the main ones

Great summary! I will only add a few: Karmic debts
Lessons we learn for spiritual growth
God works in mysterious ways - what we perceive as "bad" is sometimes a disguised blessing

Cooroo · 04/12/2023 22:39

ErrolTheDragon · 03/12/2023 15:02

There's no answer which makes any rational sense whatever which is compatible with a god who is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent and also in any way 'loving'.

Spot on!

Museum10661 · 04/12/2023 22:44

@bluekelebek
For me the answer is simple, i believe in the concept of a divine being,
when it comes to various religions i ask two questions

  1. Can all humans be trusted and the answer is no
  2. Then who wrote down all the religions: humans

ergo the religions no matter how divine or intriguing the texts maybe
due to humans writing them then i cannot trust anything the texts say,

NoAdultingToday · 04/12/2023 22:47

If you believe God exists, you need to accept the devil exists too. Good and evil.
The way I see it, I will try and contribute to the good, I believe we can all make a difference to each others existence and I do my best (most of the time) to help protect the world.