Do Christians really think like this and if so how can we be friends? (long sorry)

[GreatGooglyMoogly]

Following a rather heated, unplanned discussion about Christianity/ God with Christian friends of ours (we are atheists) I have gathered that they believe the following: that not believing in their God is the ultimate Sin and that no matter how you live your life otherwise, ie. if you are good, friendly, responsible, caring, law-abiding people but don't believe in their God you will still go to Hell when you die. It would seem that basically the only thing that matters is that you believe in their God, not how you otherwise live your life. Therefore non-Christian murderers/ criminals, etc are on a par with us in their eyes as none of us believe in God (the ultimate Sin) and we will all therefore go to Hell.

Surely if there is a God He would not be so awful and unwavering? And surely our friends cannot think of us as the ultimate Sinners or they wouldn't associate with us?

[Pruners]

Message withdrawn

[hunkermunker]

Tell them you're a member of this church - will do the trick, I think

[StarryStarryNight]

GreatGooglyMoogly

Yes. That is correct. Hell is absence of Christ. When you die you get absence of Christ. This is what you have chosen for your life as you live it as an atheist, so really it is not so bad. You already have it. Therefore you should not concern yourself. Hell for a christian, who wants Jesus in his/her life is not necessarily Hell for you.

[UnquietDad]

Hathor - no, it's not the same thing at all. GGM is not judging her friends or making any statements about their morality and/or ultimate fate based on unproveable invisible imaginary friends.

[Tortington]

uncalled for UQD.

[UnquietDad]

I know, I get more bitter as arguments like this go on.

[berolina]

I'm a practising (woolly liberal) Anglican married to an atheist, who is, incidentally, a far, far 'better' person than I. My take on it, I think, is the same as scienceteacher's - but tbh, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to imagine 'heaven', or eternal life, myself.

I do not believe in an arrogant God who would actually punish perfectly decent people for not believing.

[potoroo]

GGM - not all Christians do believe that.

I am Catholic, but was always raised to believe that it was not your 'religion' that mattered but how you live your life. (This was the view of my parents, my local church and my school - so I was quite shocked to find out that this was not the view of all Christians). Love and forgiveness was more important than what you believe in. The upshot of this is that God won't kick you out for being a non-believer

As for evangelical Catholics... my former flatmate got involved with some. They were always warning him about me because the two of us were living in the 'potential to sin' - ie even though we were just friends, I was a constant temptation to him...

[Hathor]

UQD, what I mean is, they are both having to put aside their belief that the other is deluded in order to be friends.

[UnquietDad]

Interestingly, my happy-clappy friends are most insistent that they are not "religious" and get quite offended if anyone describes them as such. They have "a relationship with God", which apparently is a different thing.

[Tortington]

truth is if god is a god worth believing in - i bet he doesn't believe all this shit anyway.

and if he does and i'm dead i might tell him that i'm no longer interested.


anyone who is a stickler for the full stops and crossed 't's in anything is an utter bore.

its faith that matters, a good life and faith. no one is better or worse than i. i shouldbe concerned only for myself and judge only myself and seek to improve myself on the behaviour of the day before if i was rude or thoguht badly of anyone.

but nice people do that anyway. nice people are just nice poeple

and god isn't going to turn good people away becuase i beileve he is a fair and just god.

[harpsichordcarrier]

anyone who doesn't think god is "awful and unwavering" hasn't read the bible too carefully tbh.
that lovely story of Noah and the flood with the prety rainbow - that would be the entire population of the earth wiped out then.

[Pruners]

Message withdrawn

[Tortington]

depends how much stock one hold in the bible too

[berolina]

pruners (hi btw)

[harpsichordcarrier]

yes, true, he is a just god after all
ungodly people, I am warning you, stop sinning and so on otherwise I will take away your X box.
and if that doesn't teach you I will murder you all with a f load of water.
or ground you, possibly.
I must say it makes me queasy the way that story is dressed up as a pretty little fairy tale.
don't even start me on the Abraham sacrifice thing.

[harpsichordcarrier]

well the bible is pretty important custy, surely?

[Tortington]

not to me.

[Tortington]

well, i mean not in the sense you mean.

[Pruners]

Message withdrawn

[berolina]

I find a lot of what is in the Bible unpalatable, harpsi. True to my woolly liberalism (which some Christians would possibly see as copping out - but then to cop out is human) I always assume there to be a context - a particular aim the writer or writers had.

[harpsichordcarrier]

fair enough custy but what other basis is there for Christian beliefs and practices?

[Tortington]

i think there is a difference between religeon and faith.

[harpsichordcarrier]

berolina, I don't mean to disrespect anyone's beliefs, particularly woolly liberal Anglican (my absolute favourites ).
whatever the context the majority of the OT bible does not provide anything like a moral basis for living one's life.
JC, different story

[harpsichordcarrier]

yes, that's true.
but religion does not inspire faith in me.
generally.