Do Christians really think like this and if so how can we be friends? (long sorry)

[GreatGooglyMoogly]

Following a rather heated, unplanned discussion about Christianity/ God with Christian friends of ours (we are atheists) I have gathered that they believe the following: that not believing in their God is the ultimate Sin and that no matter how you live your life otherwise, ie. if you are good, friendly, responsible, caring, law-abiding people but don't believe in their God you will still go to Hell when you die. It would seem that basically the only thing that matters is that you believe in their God, not how you otherwise live your life. Therefore non-Christian murderers/ criminals, etc are on a par with us in their eyes as none of us believe in God (the ultimate Sin) and we will all therefore go to Hell.

Surely if there is a God He would not be so awful and unwavering? And surely our friends cannot think of us as the ultimate Sinners or they wouldn't associate with us?

I don't believe what they believe, ie. Heaven and Hell, but I like to think that my friends like me/ who I am and that is why we are friends. I am shocked that they can have such a negative view of me and still seem to be my friend. I respect that they have beliefs and would never ridicule them for them.

er yep that is Christianity
where have you beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen GGM

Sin is separation from God. If you are an atheist, you are separated from God. Hell is a permanent separation from God. It doesn't matter what kind of life you live or don't live, if you are not in relationship with God, you are separated, and this means sin and ultimately, hell.

To be clear, Hell is a separation from God. This means when you die, you simply cease to exist rather than going to heaven for everlasting life.

The football team analogy is quite a good one. People get evangelical about it in a similar way, and about the same numbers of people participate actively at weekends (1-2 million).

I'm not a believer, so all this believe in me otherwise I'm not sending you to heaven smacks of good old fashioned blackmail to me. This is just my opinion tho', I can understand that other people do not share it.

Message withdrawn

Thank you UD, that is exactly my problem!

yep its true - beoieve in god or go to hell - you dont believe in hell so whats the problem?

well the problem is really that your friend is a happy clapper with a tambouring - tell her to get a proper religeon like catholacism

I suppose it's useful to turn it round and wonder how Googly's friends would feel if she kept banging on about some invisible friend of hers for whose existence there was no evidence, and told them they were going to some eternal perdition because they didn't happen to believe in it. It might piss them off a bit.

We all happen to have been born at a time when Western civilisation is dominated by one politically and economically powerful 2000-year-old religion. A few millennia either way and things would be entirely different. Such is the way of these things. Religions come and go. But what has endured for millions of years is the earth and the human race.

GGM, DH was asked if we loved our boys since we weren't having them christened...

Are they judging you, though? I'm trying to work out whether they said this in a judgmental, we are better than you, way or whether you are just shocked because you hadn't thought about what being a Christian means before.

And the point someone made that Christians believe we are all sinners is very relevant. If your friends are smugly convinced they are 'saved' and all right Jack, and everyone else isn't, then I think you've just discovered they aren't very nice people and haven't listened to the important bit about everyone being equal in the sight of God.

PMSL at Custy.

My mother was shocked that we were not having our two christened. She said "How will they know right from wrong?" Errrr.... let me think about that one. Gosh, that's a toughie.

The woman who asked DH was really puzzled - there was no malice behind her question - she really thought we mustn't love them if we weren't having them christened. I think I posted about it at the time. Very odd.

Bit worried now though - they won't know right from wrong, you say? Shit...!

One of our friends didn't want to baptise her DD. Her MIl said that she had to, "otherwise if she dies she won't become an angel"

GGM, I think you just have to accept your friends beliefs if you want to continue your friendship.

Message withdrawn

Oh, Prunester, you have had birthdays like I have had [empathy]

evangelical catholic? i dont believe it.

I think GGM has every right to ask her friends to respect her beliefs or lack of them, too.

I think you should just avoid the subject if your friendship means a lot to you, unless they start preaching to convert you!
We secular muslims, best friends, religious jewish with family in jerusalem.
We can manage sensible discussions about religion but for instance never ever talk about occupied territories.

anglican surely

They may try to tell you atheism is a belief too, at which point you should either use the "so not collecting stamps is a hobby, then?" gambit, or make excuses and leave!!

btw, amazing book I'm reading at the moment: The history of God (Karen Armstrong).

Message withdrawn

So, if GGM is atheist, and presumably believes that her friend is deluded in thinking that they may go to heaven or hell, yet still regards them as a friend, then isn't that just as bad as the friend thinking GGM is going to hell?
You can still be friends, no?