A good, if trivial, example why pseudo-scientific thinking MUST be challenged.

[BertrandRussell]

This is a bit of a thread about a thread, but I hope it's allowed to stay- it illustrates perfectly why pseudo science can be dangerous and needs to be challenged, and why critical thinking is vital. Someone asked whether it was OK to have a child's bed positioned under a window. People reassured them that it was fine, so long as the window was properly secure and there were no blind cords to be a danger. There were still posters saying things like "I wouldn't- I don't know why, but I just wouldn't".

They have unconsciously absorbed the need to make sure the window is properly safe- but haven't absorbed that once you have done that it is safe. That there is something else going on that makes it dangerous. So an Old Husband's Tale continues.

I heard once of a family where they always cut the end off a joint of meat before roasting it "because that's what you have to do". When it was investigated, it turned out that 50 years ago, there had been a joint too big for the oven, so the end was cut off to make it smaller. 2 generations later, that had become just something you did when you roasted meat. Nobody questioned it.

If you feel uncomfortable putting your child's bed under a window, or like doing anything else superstitious, like greeting magpies or thinking that white feathers are sending you messages or chatting to robins because they make you think of your dead mother maybe that's just me that's fine. But do it in the clear knowledge that you are being irrational, and that it isn't real. Because once you stop thinking rationally about these things you are easy prey for charlatans and woo merchants.

[Destinysdaughter]

OP aren't you vehemently anti acupuncture too?

[BertrandRussell]

I am vehemently against anything where people are parted from their hard earned money for something that has been proved many many times not to work.

[bodenbiscuit]

A family member of mine got pregnant using acupuncture after several rounds of failed IVF. And the acupuncture cost her a lot less.

What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another.

[bodenbiscuit]

Personally I would not have acupuncture but I certainly don't consider myself in a position to dismiss it for those who find it beneficial.

[Abraid2]

'The National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) only recommends considering acupuncture as a treatment option for chronic lower back pain, chronic tension-type headaches and migraine.'

Have never tried it myself.

[BertrandRussell]

Boden, your family member had acupuncture and then got pregnant.

My niece had several rounds of IVF, then got a puppy, and was pregnant two months later.

Correlation is not causation. But there certainly is evidence (I think-don't quote me) that becoming more relaxed can help you get pregnant.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Lies?

[Abraid2]

Interesting. I became pregnant as soon as we decided to get two puppies. Pregnancy confirmed the day before the pups arrived.

[BertrandRussell]

Yep. Lies.

[BoboChic]

There's a fallacy in the OP.

DC should be trained not to go near windows because many (most) windows are not secure. It's not good enough to position your own DC's bed under the window and secure that window. You would need to secure all windows to which your young DC are exposed.

[AlanPacino]

Acupuncture works like placebo. Great for conditions that won't kill you. Ineffective for cancer etc

[AlanPacino]

I think the point about the panic attacks was that it is a panic attack because the panic is not necessary at that moment. If it was it wouldn't be a problem. It wasn't that panic attacks weren't real but that the panic wasn't an appropriate response in that situation. If it was the sufferer wouldn't need treatment. No ones going to suggest counselling for some one who panics in a fire/car crash/assault.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I assume you revealed me on those threads to be a liar, but I can't for the life of me remember it happening. What does it have to do with this thread though?

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Al acupuncture works (not placebo) for a number of conditions.

[AlanPacino]

It doesn't work for cancer. It works for things that can be helped with a placebo. Because it is a placebo. Which is fine. I'd give it a go for something not serious but wouldn't bother for serious stuff. I'm quite happy to make use of the placebo myself.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

You are right, acupuncture has not been shown to work for cancer. It has been shown to work beyond placebo for other conditions. Check out Vickers et Al meta analysis on efficacy of acupuncture.

[capsium]

Personally I would not place a small child's bed underneath a window because it is likely to encourage them to climb on the window ledge to sit there, looking out. Then, before you know it, they are learning to open the window and leaning out and possibly falling. I don't keep 1st floor bedroom windows locked in case there is a fire.

Occasionally there is a half remembered explanation, like the above, for my actions. I might not always be able to verbalise it instantly so it could appear 'pseudoscientific'. However the explanation might be totally sensible.

Regarding other practices, such as acupuncture, it does not surprise or offend me that people might 'experiment' with their own health. Acupuncture is unlikely to do much harm, whereas most medication based therapies (although they might be vitally helpful) have quite serious side effects.

[BertrandRussell]

here is an interesting discussion of Vickers et al, and their interpretation of the data. It comes from an anti acupuncture viewpoint- which is a useful counterpoint to the pro acupuncture position of Vickers et al. Split the difference and you come up with an effect marginally above placebo but which can be explained either by acupuncture being effective or by the conscious or unconscious bias of the experimenters and the subjects. It is very difficult to do proper double blind trials of a procedure that involves sticking needles into someone!

[BoboChic]

capsium - life would be intolerable if we had to recall an analytical justification of every daily microdecision!

[DioneTheDiabolist]

You've been posting lies on my threads for ages.
I just did an AS on your threads OP. I haven't posted on many of them and haven't lied at all. D'ya think you may be mixing me up with someone else?

[bodenbiscuit]

You can't reasonably accuse someone of lying when all they have done is comment on their assessment of what you've posted.

It certainly is the case that there are a number of posters on the R&P board who just come on there to goad. So, if the hat fits, wear it and all that.

[ApricotSorbet99]

OP - if you think your "examples" perfectly illustrate pseudoscience, you don't understand pseudoscience.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Bert, can you provide me with some evidence of these lies that I tell on your threads. Thank you.