Any other atheists around?

[GuybrushThreepwoodMP]

Is there a group for us atheists to discuss ideas of faith, morality, life, the universe and everything (42!)?
Note: I would not want this to become about dissing people of faith and would truly welcome discussion with anyone. This isn't about ridiculing anyone. I would be particularly interested in sharing ideas and discussing the social, anthropological, philosophical, political and psychological aspects of religion from an atheist point of view. Anyone else? I can provide and and .

[msmiggins]

Who is a pagan athiest?

[CoteDAzur]

MurderOfGoths.

Don't worry, we'll surely come back to talking about you again soon

[ErrolTheDragon]

MurderOfGoths is a pagan atheist - hopefully she'll pop back and explain what that means for her.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Here's a couple of dictionary definitions:
Definition of PAGAN

1: heathen 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)

2: one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person

Don't know what MofG means by the term but the second sounds like an average Brit nowadays!

[CoteDAzur]

I guess I was a pagan all along. Who knew?

[MurderOfGoths]

Haha, I like 2! But no, for me Paganism is just being aware that nature is the one powerful force in our universe, that there's no god figure, no good/evil, just nature doing what nature does. Whether it's wonderful like a sunset or awful like a natural disaster. I enjoy the symbolism of polytheistic belief systems (I especially like Greek and Celtic mythology for this) and will use those symbols, it's done knowing they are merely symbols. So for example I have a pendant with Hecate (goddess of witchcraft/one aspect of the triple moon goddess) on it, not because I believe she exists or has power, but because thinking of what she symbolises gives me strength.

So totally atheistic, but I'll use theistic symbols.

[garlicbutter]

From Wikipedia on Hecate: "She also closely parallels the Roman goddess Trivia, with whom she was identified in Rome."

Well, it's the first I've heard of the goddess Trivia, but I feel a mysterious identification with her ...

[MurderOfGoths]

Ooh I'd never heard that either! Did read recently that Hecate is also a possible source for the name Catherine - coincidentally that turns out to be my name. Quite like that!

[garlicbutter]

Ooh, yes! The spanish version is Ecatherine, isn't it, pronounced "Eh-kattereen". Which sounds a lot like Hecate (rine). You're named for an ancient goddess, MOG, how cool!

Me, I'm named after a common-or-garden botanical. I am NOT changing my name to "Trivia", however!

[garlictrivia]

Oops, I just did

[MurderOfGoths]

Love it :) Suits you!

[garlictrivia]

[msmiggins]

CoteDAzur

"MurderOfGoths.


Don't worry, we'll surely come back to talking about you again soon"

Is it hard being a tosser or does it just come naturally?

[HettiePetal]

Your reasoning has a somewhat perverse quality to it Hettie

And this from someone who reckons she's a witch

[CoteDAzur]

Get over yourself, msmiggins.

That was a lighthearted comment (see the after it) I made because it looked like you were thinking "atheist pagan" was about you.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Good morning all. Well, knowing who Trivia was supposed to be is a perfect piece of trivia. "What is the dog barking at?" - "oh, just Trivia".

I like MoGs Paganism a lot better than either of my dictionary definitions. The second one got me thinking a bit about one of the aspersions that's often cast at atheists - about being materialistic. I just realised that sometimes people conflate the (IMO) very derogatory economic materialism with philosophical Materialism.

[CoteDAzur]

"for me Paganism is just being aware that nature is the one powerful force in our universe, that there's no god figure, no good/evil, just nature doing what nature does. Whether it's wonderful like a sunset or awful like a natural disaster"

But surely that is just how things are. It is not a belief system.

I'm not quite sure how you call yourself "pagan" but don't believe in any of pagan religions' myriad gods.

It's like calling yourself an "atheist Christian" because you love your neighbour, like singing with people in church etc.

[MurderOfGoths]

"But surely that is just how things are. It is not a belief system.

I'm not quite sure how you call yourself "pagan" but don't believe in any of pagan religions' myriad gods. "

I know that's how things are, it's why I never used the word "believe" in my explanation.

And there are many branches of Paganism, some theistic, some not. While the ancient Pagan religions were all theistic (as far as I'm aware), modern Paganism has changed and evolved.

[HettiePetal]

Do you do anything as a Pagan that you wouldn't if you weren't, MoG? Or is it just a way of looking at the world?

[MurderOfGoths]

I celebrate the 8 Sabbats. But mostly it's a way of looking at the world, and a comfort when times are tough.

[MuswellHillDad]

I like MurderofGoths explanation (and the rebuttals that show strength of character) as it raises an important question.

Is it acceptable for rational, skeptic, atheists to employ symbolism in their lives?

It strikes me that the answer must be no for the "purist", but what a boring life we would have without art, fiction, theatre, drama and symbolism in general. So for me the answer is yes, I like, want and probably need symbolism, even if I don't believe in the original artists intentions behind the symbol.

I think it is perfectly acceptable to have a medallion that is a symbol of a Sun God worship by ancients because you realise that the Sun and Stars are amazing natural objects and also because you're wearing a great Hawaiian shirt and need a medallion nestled in your hairy chest.

[MurderOfGoths]

"Is it acceptable for rational, skeptic, atheists to employ symbolism in their lives?"

For me personally I think it doesn't contradict being a skeptic unless you believe the symbols have their own power. In which case, obviously, it doesn't make any rational sense.

But for me, being aware of the strange and interesting ways that the human mind works also means being aware of the actual power that we can give symbols.

For example on the magic question. I think spell and ritual can work, but not because of some supernatural force. Best example I can think of is when someone does a luck spell. In that case what actually tends to happen is that the symbolism in the ritual just changes the way the person views the world around them, so whereas before they were maybe walking through life focussing mostly on all the bad things happening, after doing the ritual they will have changed what they are aware of. So they notice the good stuff more than the bad.

So in that case the "magic" has worked, it's just that actually the more accurate name for the magic is psychology.

[HettiePetal]

I don't know a lot about Paganism, but it strikes me that MoG's explanation suggests that she celebrates reality - the cyclical nature of life & the cosmos. I find that appealing, personally.

We actually are "at one" with the universe, we're a facet of it. That's the most beautiful thing about us, I think. Worth celebrating, imo.

I think it's perfectly acceptable for anyone to use symbolism - we all do it in loads of different ways, so I agree with you. And, yeah, what a dull world it would be without it.

[MuswellHillDad]

[HettiePetal]

The thing, though, MoG is that the minute we start talking about spells & magic, we are actually saying something that's simply not true - that there's a supernatural agency at work.

It's one thing for someone to want a luck spell to help them gain a job promotion - positive thinking & optimism has known benefits. But what's to stop that same person asking for a spell for something to do with their health, or the health of another person? It's hard to make the case then that it's all just harmless.

Humanity would be infinitely better off without superstition & I honestly think that using words like "magic", even though we might personally know it's just psychology, feeds into the collective belief that such things truly exist.

Tim Minchin said it best in Storm. How can we not see that it's sick in the head to take money from a bereaved mother who thinks she's communing with her dead child? We'll be told that, well, it's comforting, so it works for her - but the very fact that it's depraved, a pack of lies and yes, fucked in the head (as Tim says) really, really does not sit well with me.