Pull up a pew (or a fetching plastic chair) Religion Chat Thread No 6

[madhairday]

Helloooooooooo!

A shiny new thread :)

How are we all today?

DS seems to have the beginning of what may be chicken pox so is in bed feeling sorry for himself. My laptop is playing up - a picture fell on it yesterday and killed the b key - it takes ages to make it respond now grrrr - and cracked the screen, so not sure what to do :(

[niminypiminy]

Just popping in to say hello. Nickel, v good to hear that you managed all the Sunday services without DH, and hoping he's feeling better now. How are things with you post-shop?

Kay, hope you do manage to make it to Alpha and that you find something there -- even if it's just some nice food. (I once heard about someone who went to an Alpha at HTB, who were filming bits of it, and all the bottles of wine were taken off the tables before they started filming!)

My mum, amazingly, has been discharged from hospital, and today should be moving into residential care for a couple of weeks until her new flat is ready -- it's smaller, and has no stairs, so she should be able to manage there independently at least for a while. I don't know what the longer term will bring, and there's no point in worrying about it for the moment.

Must get myself together and go off to work! Love to you all.

[Dutchoma]

It was the book that my daughter was given. I didn't get any further than page 1 which had spaces to fill in. It seemed very basic to me and although I recognise there are many people who need that basic knowledge, it wasn't for me and can well imagine that a lot of people who have been thinking deeply about issues of faith would be put off by it. It might have got better later on... My daughter did not finish the course and remains a rampant atheist.

[Jaynebxl]

Dutch I think it is supposed to be basic so it can speak to people who are starting from nowhere. Guess there will sadly always be people it does nothing for though. I particularly liked the discussions it sparked and the opportunity for people to ask questions and bring up issues they had to faith. The talks are very well done and interesting to listen to. Nicky Gumbel is a very engaging speaker. I imagine little of what makes it work comes over in the book. Hopefully something else one day will really speak to your daughter.

[GingerCurl]

I did the Alpha course quite a few years ago and, must admit, it wasn't for me. I think my main problem with it is that it presupposes a belief that there is a God and it is then "just" (haha! ) a matter of putting a face and name to that God. But if you don't believe that God exists in the first place, I really struggle to see how it would get you there.

It also depends on how good the discussion groups are. If, like when I did it, no one in the group or only one or two are willing to voice their thoughts it becomes quite pointless and/or very hard going. A friend of mine did a course recently where everyone except for her attended the same church. She was the only one asking questions and voicing opinions while the rest were just sitting and agreeing with everything they had just been told on the video. Whether or not that was because they really did agree with it, hadn't thought it through or just didn't want to expose their ignorance/non-conformance in front of the vicar, who led it, I don't know. She did not complete the course in any case and jumped off just before the away-day.

[Dutchoma]

Yes, to her great annoyance we pray for her daily and I am sure that God holds her in His hand. She gets no comfort from it though, more's the pity.

[GingerCurl]

Isn't it interesting how some atheists get really worked up at the thought of someone praying for them? I've never understood it. If you don't believe that God exists or that prayer makes the slightest bit of difference, why get angry when someone prays for you? Praying for someone is about blessing them and wishing good for them, why is that wrong or provocative?

[Dutchoma]

I think it is because they want to be confirmed in their beliefs. God has not played ball with them, they are angry about it, want nothing to do with Him and when anybody dare suggest that God might have a claim on their lives it riles them. It's that way with my daughter.
And isn't it amazing that athisists can't spell? Athiest is the most common.

[nickelbabe]

i've seen alpha course stuff on telly and it freaks me out.


it feels weird without the shop being open: still there clearing out (oh my god my house is too small for the amount of stuff ), but i just feel so freeeeeeeeeeeee

[thanksamillion]

I'm glad that you're feeling free(eeeee) nickel A whole new world awaits you!

[niminypiminy]

Nickel, that's good to hear.

I'm going to take a break from mn for a while. I'm feeling bruised and isolated, and not really in a very good place.

You're in my prayers and I'll see you when I get back.

[Dutchoma]

Niminy dearie what's happened? PM me if you want to talk off board or in RL. You're not that far.

[Jaynebxl]

Sorry to hear that Niminy.

Nickel why on earth would Alpha freak you out? I'd be really interested to know. However anyone feels about the style or delivery the content is very sound, straight Christian teaching.

[nickelbabe]

sorry you're taking a break from mn niminininininy.
we'll keep in touch, I know x

jayne, I think it's exactly that then- that the delivery seems wrong to me. it's just I don't like evangelizing.

[KayHarker]

I didn't go in the end, but I am really quite ill, so I was fair not to spread me germs around. So I've missed the session on faith. No biggie - faith is the empty hand that receives, or the chair one trusts will carry your weight. there, see, I did it .

Not sure what I'm going to do about the Holy Spirit stuff.

[Dutchoma]

Jayne, that may how people perceive it, but it is a very simplified form of 'straight Christian teaching'. There is a lot more to Christianity than Alpha will ever be able to cover, it is also very anti-gay biased which may not be everybody's cup of tea.
I would go with Nickel that what I have seen is maybe not 'freaking me out' but definitely makes me want to run a mile.

[Jaynebxl]

Interesting. I don't think anyone would expect it to be anything more than a simplified form since it only lasts for a few weeks. Not sure the subject of homosexuality comes up in it at all, does it? Of course it could come up in discussions after the talks / DVDs.

Anyway, sorry to hear it makes you feel so bad ... So many people have had their lives transformed as a result of doing Alpha but nothing can appeal to everyone I guess.

[madhairday]

I've led on Alpha courses before. I think how they work really depends on the church doing them. As mine have been mainstream Anglican/open evangelical churches they have been low key, encouraged discussion, friendly and fun. I think they have helped an awful lot of people come to faith, and for that I am grateful. I think that some people don't find them helpful due to style - it's quite middle class in style, and for the people in our last church it was actually over their heads, they needed something more basic and Nicky Gumbel was a bit too 'posh' for them iyswim - I found the Start! course by CPAS worked really well in this context. For those on the different end of the scale there are some good courses more focussed on apologetics and which do not assume a belief in God - such as Glad You Asked and the Y Course - they assume a level of philosophical knowledge and engagement and I would say are good presursors to something like Alpha.

I think Alpha is great and still has its place. I think the Holy Spirit emphasis is especially important, and the part which often brings the reality of faith from head to heart. I also know some styles of churches do this in different ways, and the more extreme pentecostal may make some rather uncomfortable. Anglican tends to be fairly safe, but hopefully with an edge of being prepared to see what God will do.

Kay, I hope you feel better soon and hope the next session is good for you. :)

[Jaynebxl]

Not heard of the Start course, MHD, what's that one like?

[KayHarker]

No Alpha this week apparently. We're looking at prayer next week.

[madhairday]

It's more basic than Alpha Jayne and more relaxed in style I think. It's getting slightly dated now but works well in certain contexts - less middle class white like alpha iyswim. We like it - used it a number of times.

have a look

[thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts]

We use that one for the same reasons. The boss has just ordered the new Pilgrim course which I think we are going to trial on some of the congo to see how it runs.

[GingerCurl]

Feeling very thick ATM! Read Greenheart's comment and thought, "Why on earth would anyone one trial of a course material in central Africa?"

[GingerCurl]

oooops! Didn't mean to kill the thread....

[Jaynebxl]

Ginger that's hilarious!

[thanksamillion]

I have to confess that I, for a fleeting moment, also wondered why greenheart was trialling it in Africa. I wondered how it would be contextualised

We've used youth alpha here, but quite loosely (probably not what you're meant to do at all!). I know of someone who uses it regularly as it's available in Romanian, but I do wonder how relevant it would be to people here.

We are opening the second phase of our community centre today - a fitness room with gym equipment and a massage room. We're sending a girl from the village off on a massage course tomorrow so she will be able to offer therapeutic massage, partly to generate income and partly as a free service for those with medical need. All very exciting!

Phase three will be done in the spring and will be indoor toilets