Adult children living overseas

[Ozzieabroad]

Replied to a similar post but it was quite old and wasn’t on this specific board, so posting again here - interested if others have similar thoughts or experiences.

This can be an extremely difficult situation, with a type of background grieving which never fully dissipates, no matter how full and busy and fulfilling and happy your own life and career might be. Know of many empty-nesters in this situation.

it’s the loss of the future we all probably imagined - perhaps without even being consciously aware of it - that we might have with our adult children and possible grandchildren, as we head towards retirement.

it auddenly becomes crystal clear when the empty nest begins and menopause sets in, that we are now in theory superfluous to society, so to feel abandoned by one’s children, when we have spent 20 years of our lives doing everything for them, just makes it much worse - it’s almost like waking up from a long 20-year dream where our entire identity was tied up with being a parent and somehow we subconsciously thought (or acted as if) we would be forever parents of young children - we will pay lip service to the obvious fact that they will grow up and leave home, but we don’t really believe it until it happens. It almost seems there’s some sort of hormonal effect, for both men and women, that puts us in this 20-year daze while raising children - probably this has had evolutionary advantages.

it doesn’t help to be told to just be happy for your children and do lots of fun things with your own life, and particularly not make them feel guilty - one feels one can never really express one’s true feelings any more.

Of course we can be happy with our own lives, but it’s not the same as people who’ve never had children (which is probably why that demographic overall is happier!) - when you actually have had children, and particularly when you have grandchildren, you feel you should be/want to be part of their everyday lives in real life.

This strong drive to be part of our grandchildren’s lives is probably also evolutionary in origin - after all, it’s thought that the reason humans live so long beyond their reproductive years, is because of the strong evolutionary advantages provided by our involvement with our grandchildren.

Now this strong drive is being thwarted by modern lifestyles involving adult children moving across the world permanently.

In ancient history, yes, humans were constantly migrating huge distances, but it was the whole tribe that migrated together, the stronger and younger tribe members helping the elders and toddlers to move with them.

To have younger people say technology fixes all of the problems of distance is not correct - it’s just not the same as actual day to day presence and being able to attend any social or sporting events at a moments notice, have spontaneous family meals, and even just dropping in.

it’s particularly difficult when dealing with defensive DILs, who are very possessive of your son and want them to virtually become a different person and leave behind their family and culture completely, and who would regard the slightest comment about their own country not being the best at absolutely everything, as an unforgivable attack.


When it gets so extreme (and your son has also become so defensive) that you can’t even talk about anything that happens in your own country or that shows your own culture in a favourable light, and that all that sort of news is completely ignored as if it’s a complete no-no - then it’s really shocking.

To have the feeling that your DIL (or SIL, as in one case I know) wouldn’t have the slightest care in the world - or would even be happy - if their in-laws suddenly died and they and their children would never have to see them again - that’s a terrible feeling.

Then of course there’s the huge expense of travel and accomodation to see them and be near them for any length of time - and the dread of a future where that travel won’t be possible due to financial or health reasons.

Even worse when the other parents-in-law live near your expat child, have a house with everything and unlimited financial resources, pay for (and require attendance at) frequent family holidays - so it’s impossible to compete with that, not only from a distance but also with the huge expense of travel.

There’s the feeling that the in-laws are actually buying your adult child - and that’s mixed with a bit of anger that your child is allowing themselves to be bought, and with an inability to hint at such a feeling because it will be interpreted as churlish.

Our adult children, of course, are in that 20-year dream state of being parents, that they think will never end, and they can’t even imagine that they themselves will be empty nesters and their own children might do the same thing to them as they have done to their own parents. They don’t think it could happen to them! So they’re not even understanding that the way their children see them treating their own parents, is exactly what they are modelling for their own children to behave as adults.

And that hasn't even touched the tip of the iceberg - because it’s other family members who are missing out as well - adult children are already quite disengaged from our parents, their elderly grandparents (who have been so wonderful to them when they were children), even when living nearby - this is SO much worse when they are living overseas, and incredibly unfair on your elderly parents who deserve so much better at such a late stage in life.

[TellMeWhere]

OK

[Pinniepotter]

I totally hear you OP. I would be devastated if my DC moved abroad and that's not to say they don't have every right to forge their own life and do just that. I had children to have a family and to me that means being a meaningful part of their lives day to day. There's no solution though - part
of parenting is facilitating their own independent lives. My sister has moved abroad and I know it makes my parents sad. My sisters kids are sad too and always ask when they are going home. It's affected all our relationships for the worse.

[Pinniepotter]

Oh and I completely agree that you teach your children how to treat you by how you treat your own parents.

[PermanentTemporary]

I don't know. I'm currently grappling with ds just having gone to uni, and for sure I miss him, but it is also my greatest pleasure that he is out forging his own life and that I can re-find my own. I imagine him being overseas in the future - it's a strong possibility given the degree he is doing - and yes it is difficult to see how that will work emotionally. I do imagine and hope he will connect with a strong family around his partner - that will be a good thing.

I think you're right about this situation being a genuine loss and that you will always be feeling a form of grief. But it's also not a tragedy. You have made it possible for him to choose his own life and that is also a huge success, really the only one that matters.

[ThroughThickAndThin01]

I think it must be difficult if your adult dc move abroad. If you have the money and youth on your side you can visit (if they want you to), but age and money and health may be an issue, and certainly will become more of one as you age.

I have a Ds who lives around 4 hours away but still in the uk. That feels far enough for me.

[determinedtomakethiswork]

I think it would be incredibly difficult for anyone whose child goes to live abroad permanently. However it makes a huge difference who they are married to. I absolutely get it that you feel they have bought him and he has allowed himself to be bought. It sounds as though he's going to realise what's really going on at some point.

[Lottsbiffandsmudge]

The thing that sticks out to me most is how your son and DIL behaves towards you is modelling the type of behaviour their DC are likely to return in time.
I see this from my brothers and their spouses towards my own mother. They both have sons. I hope my brothers and SILs never experience the type of hurt they currently inflict on my mother with their disregard for her feelings. And it's not even callous behaviour just a lack of care really.
My DH calls his mother regularly and I am always welcoming to them. Because at the very least she was once me. And deserves love and respect.

[gogohmm]

I think op you have a very specific situation. Most young people who move overseas don't have these problems. The same situation could have arose with this relationship dynamic in the U.K. (and frequent examples crop up on Mumsnet)

[MigsandTiggs]

@gogohmm

I think op you have a very specific situation. Most young people who move overseas don't have these problems. The same situation could have arose with this relationship dynamic in the U.K. (and frequent examples crop up on Mumsnet)

I agree with @gogohmm. I have no problem with my adult dc living overseas. One, I see about once a year in the UK and the other, I haven't seen in 3 years! We WhatsApp almost daily and dil is part of the group chat. DC also have individual accounts so we can chat on that too, without ils. I lead a very relaxed, yet full life, as I have many interests and I can afford to visit anytime, if I want to. Dil told ds that she liked my hands off approach/independence as her own mum is too clingly!

[WalkingOnSonshine]

I’d love to hear the other side of this.

[ItsButters]

@WalkingOnSonshine

I’d love to hear the other side of this.

Me too.

[Ozzieabroad]

Very true, and yes I know people in similar situations with children who haven’t moved far away at all.

However, the overseas part of the equation adds another huge layer to the problem - the expense of visiting (in either direction), and the knowledge that this will become increasingly difficult as financial and health issues may impact, plus the knowledge that one has to somehow plan for extreme old age and disability without having any adult children nearby.

in my work I come across many abandoned elderly parents, beautiful people who one feels desperately sorry for, and to imply that all of them must have somehow been at fault and alienated their neglectful adult children, is simply offensive and disrespectful.

[Ozzieabroad]

The above was a reply to gogohmm

[Ozzieabroad]

Lottsbiff… your comment about a plain lack of care (as opposed to targeted callousness) certainly resonates - this is what one sees over and over again - adult children simply realise there are absolutely zero consequences for them if they don’t even contact their parents, even very elderly parents, and they just live extremely selfish lives. Again, to imply that they are always right and their parents are always in the wrong, is offensive, and unlikely to be expressed by people with empathy or who have experience of similar situations.

[onlythreenow]

Surely adult children have been moving overseas for a long time, it's not actually something new. My great-grandparents all moved here from the UK either when newly married, or before marriage, and in those far off days would never have seen their parents and other family again, and with only letter writing to keep in touch. Children have no say in being born, it's a choice made solely by their parents, and I believe it is then selfish for their parents to want to keep them by their side for the rest of their lives.

[MintyBinty]

People move abroad to improve and enrich their lives! They often move for work and the opportunities that other countries can provide. If your adult son has become difficult to talk to, I wonder if perhaps it was your own reaction to him leaving the UK that has damaged your relationship with him? You do not have the right to make him feel guilty about the choices he has made - and to say that he has allowed himself to be bought!? What the actual fuck? Was he supposed to simply follow your wishes as an adult, and not make any choices that went against that? How is that fair?

In my experience, most adults who immigrate tend to return. However, some settle in another country and choose not to go back. If this is the case, unfortunately it is something you are simply going to have to accept. As tough as that may be - you can’t expect a grown adult to simply do you what you want them to do. That isn’t fair.

[MiddleParking]

It sounds like you have really unreasonable expectations of your son and really unpleasant feelings towards him and his wife and her family. I don’t think him living round the corner from you would solve this situation.

[Ozzieabroad]

To all those who are piling on - like all the other parents who have expressed their difficulty with these situations (and have sometimes been criticised and attacked by others who haven’t shared that they personally have any experience of similar situations), there has been nothing but positivity expressed to son and DIL, and there have been no recriminations or guilt trips or demands. Others - both good friends and family with no personal stake in the matter - have observed the in-laws in question to be dominating and controlling and triumphalist in their behaviour and their huge financial resources in many many ways. To suggest that ultra-wealthy people never throw their weight and money around, is strange. And it is possible to sometimes feel upset with one’s adult child without sharing that with them or being a bad person. To suggest that parents are always at fault in these situations, that we don’t have any right to our feelings, and that adult children and their spouses and in-laws are always perfect and correct, is quite gratuitous, to say the least.

[Ozzieabroad]

Many many thanks to the people who have expressed understanding, empathy, and helpful positive suggestions.

[Suemademedoit]

Welcome to the life of every immigrant, ever. You’re not saying anything millions of MILs around the world haven’t said before.

You need to get over this. You’re making this all about you, which is why you come across as selfish. I am the child who emigrated, thick in that 20-year parenting stretch you describe. We spend all the major holidays with my in laws. I haven’t been home for Christmas once since I got married, only go once a year because of finances. Not once have my parents said anything to me, and I know (because I’ve known them my whole life) that if they had anything like the feelings you describe, they would have said so or I would have intuited. The are just happy that I’m happily married, everyone is healthy and settled, and that’s it. They raised me to let me go.

My MIL, on the other hand, is just like you. She weeps - literally! - at the mere suggestion that any of her children might move far from her. One of them actually has now (ain’t that a surprise…) and she just can’t get over it. She sees it as a failing in him. Nothing to do with her, oh no. Her DD refuses to be further than a 2hr drive away from her DM. She’s on her way to her 40s. It’s completely suffocating and totally ego-centric. She’s even made burial plans such that her D.C. will feel obliged to visit her tomb fgs! She had her children young and lives for them and, now, her GDC. She would replace me in a heartbeat if she could. Has made it abundantly clear on many an occasion that my job is to be to her son and grandchildren what she would be to them. Fuuuuuck no! Of course I will and am following my DM’s model.

We are raising our children to look outwards from the family. To experience the world and taste all its opportunities. We will be here when and if they want to come home, but I’m very clear in my mind that I will have failed as a parent if they cling to me, unable to leave their parents. I want them to be independent, living their lives, not popping in to see me, dropping by for lunch or dinner or whatever. They should have more important things to do than that! A FaceTime to tell me they’re ok is fine. Back in the day, immigrants had to make do with airmail letters that took months to arrive.

Im sure you haven’t said any of what you’ve written directly to your DS and DIL’s faces. But they know. They 100% know. Your DS knows you and knows what you think.

Also, quit with the expectation of having kids to look after you in your old age or frailty. That’s a privilege some parents are lucky to receive; it’s not an entitlement.

[MiddleParking]

Others - both good friends and family with no personal stake in the matter - have observed the in-laws in question to be dominating and controlling and triumphalist in their behaviour and their huge financial resources in many many ways.

So people who do have a stake in telling you what you want to hear then. But ultimately not that helpful to you since the real stakeholders choose to hang about with them and not with you.

To suggest that ultra-wealthy people never throw their weight and money around, is strange.

Which no one did.

To suggest that parents are always at fault in these situations, that we don’t have any right to our feelings, and that adult children and their spouses and in-laws are always perfect and correct, is quite gratuitous, to say the least.

Which no one did. Think I’d move abroad too

[Coyoacan]

Surely adult children have been moving overseas for a long time, it's not actually something new

Actually, when I was growing up in NI, we were taught the geography of Australia in school, instead of the geography of our own country. It was just assumed that we would all move away at around the age of 18.

And I and my two siblings did leave the country but my mother had and enjoyed her own life, as well as enjoying visiting us.

OP, nobody knows what the future will bring. Enjoy the moment instead of fretting about things you cannot change.

[Eixample]

I moved abroad temporarily for work but it has allowed me to stay in contact with my parents. The geographical boundary is the only one my mother could ever respect, as she can’t get around it. I couldn’t be in touch with her otherwise. She used to call my bank pretending to be me and try to cancel my cards, or call my GP to fish for information. She applied for jobs in my name using a copy of my CV she had. It’s such a relief that she can’t do that any more. She feels very hard done by that I am living abroad and I’m sure the people she talks to think I am a monster. A lot of expats I know have similarly complicated family backgrounds. So I think it’s impossible to generalise for all cases.

[Buttercup129]

You are like my MIL. We've just moved to another country, and she just wants in on everything and wants to have the same control on our marriage and our lives and my child as she used to when we lived with her. I would not want to EVER go back to living with her, oh God no!! She feels entitled to my baby more than me!! No concept of privacy for us as a couple. Hell, we couldn't even enjoy a proper honeymoon phase, as they call it, in the earlier stages of our marriage because she had something or the other to say or do. 110 percent the cause of most of our arguments and fights. Your DIL probably thinks the same, and she wouldn't be wrong if she really wants to keep her boundaries from you. And why would you compare yourself to her parents? That's so unfair.

[Suemademedoit]

I’m coming back to this because something just isn’t sitting right about your points.

If my PILs paid for a large family holiday that included me/DH/DC my parents would be THRILLED for me. What a gift! They’d ask me (because I’m still 12 😆) if I thanked them properly.

The last thing that would enter their minds is that they were trying to buy me from them. That’s such a, I don’t know, perverse and far-fetched reaction to have. It reeks of insecurity in your part.

You also don’t seem to accord your DS any agency in this. Did he not choose this woman to be his wife? Did he not choose to move abroad? Is he happy in his marriage? If yes to the above, what are your issues? Is it anything more than “what about me?”?

I understand the part about being superfluous to society but if you’re approaching retirement and menopausal then you will have had your D.C. young and you will be young. Move on. Your first mistake was in making assumptions about your future and your DC’s future (which you had no right to do, or reason to do). The next mistake was wrapping your whole identity up in motherhood. You are much, much more than a mother. Good grief!

Try talking to a professional about this because this isn’t just about your D.C. moving abroad. It’s deeper than that.