Someone else’s child - how would you feel?

[excitednerves]

Parent A and parent B have crossed paths a few times, been chatting and exchanged numbers. They have similar(ish) aged children. After a couple of meet ups, it becomes clear that parent A’s child (age 2) has some developmental issues - doesn’t talk, doesn’t respond to being told to stay close or to come back etc, very active and constantly on the move.

If you were parent B (assuming parent A and B like each other) what would you think? That parent A should have told you / explained about their child? That the child seems like a bit of hard work and probably isn’t worth catching up in future? Doesn’t matter if you like parent A?

Maybe you can work out which parent I am but I’m interested in how you’d feel?

[makinganavalon]

Sorry I've just read the thread properly so silly of me to comment before that.
I'm glad parent B hasnt actually judged!!

[makinganavalon]

What is parent B's problem?
Why are people always only in things for themselves- why could parent B not wonder what she could do to be a friend to parent and child A instead of wondering what she can exploit and get out of this child for her own child in terms of friendship.
When I really stop to think about it using a person like that and then dropping them when they have perceived problems is sick.

[snazzynamechangetiming]

My DS at 2 was very controlled, but didn't speak. My DD is a whirlwind but very chatting and she's 2 shortly. I wouldn't think anything about it, children are all different. Although when I went to some speech groups for DS the majority of "late speakers" were boys. It's brilliant you've been able to access therapy so early, it can be very tricky getting anything even private before 3.

[MoreAloneTime]

I'd agree with that about children anyway. There aren't many that couldn't even be in the environment as each other as long as both are ok with the environment.

[Goldbar]

I wouldn't have thought being forced to gel would be any more fun for a child with SEN

Maybe for older kids, but most under 5s are capable of enjoying the same sorts of activities to different levels regardless of their developmental level. I've only ever met one toddler my DC couldn't play with (or at least happily alongside) in some way, and that was because this child keep bashing my DC on the head and poking them without the parent intervening.

[furbabymama87]

One of my kids also has development delay and autism, so I can see it from the other side too. She will play nicely but doesn't form strong friendships. But I probably wouldn't meet with someone to get my kid to have a friend. You don't have to force the kids to be friends if it's not working but can still find a way to continue the friendship between you both without it involving the kids.

[MoreAloneTime]

I wouldn't have thought being forced to gel would be any more fun for a child with SEN. Surely in that situation you'd arrange to meet friends somewhere the kids could play alone if that worked better.

[furbabymama87]

I've met up with people with naughty kids, not sure if they're diagnosed with anything but I'm not going to put myself out for my kids to be slapped and poked the whole time we're together. I would only think the friendship was worth persevering with if it was a true friendship and not a circumstantial one based on our kids being the same age or in the same class. But to be honest I don't force friendships with people I have nothing in common with as they're fake and they don't last.

[ApplePippa]

@MoreAloneTime I've done my best to explain but I'll try again ....

Some developmentally delayed children don't "gel" with any other children, (not just yours) because of their disability.

Fortunately, I had people in my life who didn't consider their children spending time with my nonverbal autistic toddler as "wasting time trying to get two kids to play who don't gel". But not everyone does. And they end up very isolated.

[MoreAloneTime]

Its not "not wasting time on a child with SEN" but rather not wasting time trying to get two kids to play who don't gel.

[Goldbar]

When you have a child who is delayed in their development, its not just your child they're not interacting with, its every other child as well. As a direct result of their disability. Its not like the parent can just shrug and think "oh well, we'll meet up.with X instead because our kids get on well", because there is no X. And so the parent and child just become more and more isolated. And that hurts... a lot. We rely on a bit of compassion from others, and acceptance that our children can't do what yours can.

I agree with this. I also think 1-5 is in many ways the easiest age bracket to make sure all children are included since the differences are often less pronounced than with older children and little children are much more accepting. So if we can't make an effort to include children at this age, then there really isn't much hope going forward . It's also an age at which positive social interaction is essential and beneficial for children, especially if they're developmentally delayed. Making an effort at this age can make a huge difference going forward.

It's up to the parents to manage the kids' play to make it positive. We did a lot of playing outside with sand, paint and water over the summer with my friend's DC. My DC knows that they don't like to play with toys in the same way that my DC does (unfamiliar toys and sharing are stress points for my friend's DC so I remove most before visits). But both children love to paint and splash boats in water and run around chasing each other through pop up tunnels. It must be rare for there to be nothing that a couple of 2-4 year olds can play with together, even if they're just doing it alongside each other and enjoying each other's company.

[gardennewb]

Im a parent A too, dd is also 2, not really speaking and v active! I don't think she's delayed in a big way, she just is more developed on the physical side rather than the linguistic side!

If you were nearby we could go on a play date - we might even be able to talk in passing as we run around the park after our respective children!

[ApplePippa]

Sorry, that was to the pp saying she couldn't understand why MattyGrove's post was abelist.

[ApplePippa]

[quote ApplePippa]@MattyGroves I understand what you're trying to say, but can I try and explain where the hostility comes from?

When you have a child who is delayed in their development, its not just your child they're not interacting with, its every other child as well. As a direct result of their disability. Its not like the parent can just shrug and think "oh well, we'll meet up.with X instead because our kids get on well", because there is no X. And so the parent and child just become more and more isolated. And that hurts... a lot. We rely on a bit of compassion from others, and acceptance that our children can't do what yours can.

So us Parent As read post like yours through that lense, and get a bit angry that some people just can't be bothered with us or our children, as a direct result of our children's disabilities.

Hope that helps to explain a bit.[/quote]
I did try and explain...

[picketingpanic]

@MoreAloneTime

I don't see what's ableist about what MattyGroves is saying. Don't most people prioritise those they get one with well as friends regardless of any disability?

When you've got small children and no other history friendships do tend to be based on convenience. I don't think it helps to talk about these adult friendships and if they are the same as those of children or teenagers.

Because saying 'Well I'm short of time, so I'm not wasting mine on a child with SEN' is saying 'This child is not worth any extra effort, and if I have to expend any extra effort on a child it had better be worth it'

Children with SEN are more effort, but the rewards all round for everyone involved are enormous.

Like I said, I stopped being asked to things with my child when their additional needs became more and more pronounced. Because, urgh, the effort. And everyone was so busy, you know?

[MoreAloneTime]

I don't see what's ableist about what MattyGroves is saying. Don't most people prioritise those they get one with well as friends regardless of any disability?

When you've got small children and no other history friendships do tend to be based on convenience. I don't think it helps to talk about these adult friendships and if they are the same as those of children or teenagers.

[Spudlet]

@excitednerves Oh god, I got all of that too. ‘Read to him!’ ‘Talk to him!’ I don’t know how I didn’t scream, honestly, like I hadn’t bloody well thought of that?! Like I wasn't doing it every day? Honestly. It makes you want to scream.

We used signing for DS - Mr Tumble is a fantastic resource for that. And we were fortunate enough to have family assistance to pay for private speech therapy. DS will be 6 soon and has been seeing his speech therapist since he was about 2 or 3 - they have a lovely bond and she knows him inside out. His speech is now totally age appropriate, so she helps him more with the language side of things - she goes into his school. It makes me angry to even have to say this because all children should get this help who need it, regardless of whether their families can afford it, but if going private is an option for you, I’d do it. But in the meantime, signing was a godsend for DS, it gave him that start with being able to communicate.

[Missmissmiiiiiiiiisss]

Health services are notorious for telling parents of children who end up with ASD diagnosis (or other disabilities that aren’t immediately diagnosable) that it’s their poor parenting.
I’m so incredibly thankful I have more than one child, so I have a ‘control’. Which is awful! I shouldn’t even have to think like that. But they do make you paranoid and questioning yourself.

The good thing is that anyone you actually want as your friend won’t do this. It will be obvious you are good mum (with flaws like all of us, you don’t have to be perfect!) and they won’t judge you.

[Sleepyquest]

Oh just to add, I'm not saying your child does not have delays - only you know that. I just mean I wouldn't necessarily notice

[Sleepyquest]

My child sounds just like yours although she has now started talking. She has no delays. If I met your child, I wouldn't assume anything because they sound like a normal 2 yr old! I think you're looking into it too much.
FWIW, my DD NEVER stays close. She's always on the go.

[excitednerves]

@Spudlet totally taking this in the spirit that it’s meant. Yes, I am being overly anxious. This thread has been hugely useful in putting that to rest.

I think I’ve just had lots of comments from well meaning family and (less well meaning) HV that I need to read to him more (we read loads), narrate my day, talk to him more, honestly I talk and sing non stop, making me feel like I’ve prevented him from talking by supposedly living a life of silence or something.

All of my mum friends from the area that I’ve left never comment on it unless I mention it. I guess I’m just worried that new friends are going to be the HV type and judging me on poor parenting. That does appear to be very much not the case. Also my new HV has been amazing and has done the referral to speech therapy and is great at celebrating all the things he is good at, rather than focus on his communication.

@pompomsgalore it’s not a no go subject but maybe the info above is why I’ve been reluctant to mention it?

[picketingpanic]

@MattyGroves

Don’t you want your child mixing with a child that has a disability?

I didn't say that - just that I don't get much time with my 2 year old so when I do, I am prioritising spending it with kids he enjoys playing with/doing things he wants to do. Which might include playing with a child with a disability but if a child wasn't really able to interact with him, that wouldn't be a priority for me on my one day off a week with him.

I don't really view my day off with my 2 year old as about making friends for me. Of course if someone actively wanted my support and was finding things hard, I would do what I could.

but if a child wasn't really able to interact with him, that wouldn't be a priority for me on my one day off a week with him.*
*
This is ableism. Pure and simple.

[Spudlet]

I would also add op - and please understand that I am parent A here with DS and I honestly do get you - that you may be being a bit paranoid given that parent b hasn’t said anything of the sort. And I understand, I do! It does make you paranoid, you do worry that the parents with the neurotypical kids are judging, I know! So that’s not me being one of those posters (you know the ones, the head tilt ones who shove everything back onto the op no matter what), but I’m a couple of years down this journey on from you, and I know what it’s like. But you just have to try and recognise that feeling for what it is and see the situation clearly.

[Abitlost2]

I bet anything parent A has a boy and parent B a girl.
Yes, it's a total generalisation but one I've heard a million times as I have 3 ds. All of mine were movers and didn't speak much at 2. Omg 2 is so young!!
Anyway all older now, very articulate, really sporty, great at listening and all super fit (see previous constant moving), they also love art and school and reading. I heard it all when they were smaller by parents with "chilled" toddlers ; "they never stop", "you have your hands full", " mine is very "good" as they sit still". Why is it always seen as "bad" when kids move a lot or are more physical?

[Santastuckincustoms]

My 2 year old definitely does not respond to being told to stop! Or to come with us! He just runs like forest gump until he hits a wall. I'd say the 2 yo sounds like a normal child and a lot of fun!