Am I mad to even contemplate a second child? Help please!

[artyjoe]

I was told 12 years previous that I couldn't have children, due to several new factors I tried again and now have a wonderful 2.5 year old. She is truly fantastic and I still cry for joy when she smiles and tells me she loves me...I also want to murder her when she's throwing herself on the floor screaming for 90 mins...although thankfully these are less frequent.

The main problem is I 'think' I'd like another for all the usual reasons, don't want DD1 to be an only child, we are old parents so she may be left in the world earlier than most, the love for this child is so immense surely it would be fantastic to have another...have had to come off the pill for various reasons and have no contraception choices left except to try for a baby or the snip..so to have or not to have is the question.

My daughter, wonderful though she is, still doesn't sleep through the night often. Last night was a 2am wake up and started her day at 5am...this is very usual for us. So I'm worried about the fact I've not slept for 2.5 years really and had a diabolical pregnancy, 8 months of total hell, and realise I could have exactly the same again, coupled with 2 nightly wake ups from DD1.

My husband and I are very strong in our relationship and he's very supportive, he's also a stay at home dad and I work from home so we live happily together 24/7 and our DD goes to nursery 3 days a week, finances are fine, but I have a lot of work stress.

I read threads on here about siblings hating each other and fighting and I'm just wondering if a second would be a blessing or a nightmare.

Part of me just wants to flip a coin but that can't be right either! I don't know what to do but with the contraception issue a problem, we really need to make a decision.

If I fell pregnant tomorrow my DD1 would be 3.5 years so the sleep thing could be better..but we thought that when she was 2!

My husband worries about when they are older and are going to different clubs, spreading time, shopping with two, etc and also that they might hate each other or that DD1 may stop being the fantastic child that she is.

Any advice or opinions? I don't know anyone who has 2 kids believe it or not, or older parents, I'm 37 and partner 46)...we don't have family so would be doing this with just the two of us.

[LoveMyGirls]

You are probably going to hate me for this comment and it may not be true in your case but I have noticed a pattern with those who have either lost babies or took years and years to concieve etc when they do finally have the precious gift of a child they don't want to ever upset or hurt that child (understandably) so that child has no disapline - children need disapline and routine they thrive on it (no not to claire verity's degree of it btw!!!!!) when they don't get it they push and push to see how far they can go. I think in this case its the sleep thing she knows you will allow her to wake in the night therefore carries on doing it?

My mum says when i was 9 months old (i was a determined fiesty little madam) she had had enough of me waking her in the night so she came in and shouted at me and from that day i never woke her in the night again. She says be nice nice lovely mummy in the daytime BUT at night time mummy is not nice mummy is grumpy unless you are ill. No children want to get up if all they get is a grumpy mummy.

This is my mums theory and it has worked with my dd1 (who i had pre dp), dd2 however is a different matter she is 2 and as dp is soft as shite and he will get up 4 or 5 times in the night to shh her and put her dummy in - i dont as i sleep through but if she so much as murmers dp is straight in there without my knowledge i say if he is silly enough to pander to her then let him carry on getting up 4 or 5 times a night, if he left her she would settle herself.

I think if you would like another child go for it, i love having my 2 and when dd1 was 3 i was in tears everytime i saw a pg lady because i wanted my baby so much i didn't care what happened afterwards i just knew i wanted her and now my family is complete and i am very happy. Good luck and please don't take offense as it is not intended.

[crokky]

eeeeek! pg is so tough for some of us...

re the sibling - I have 3 siblings and I really am happy about it, I get on with them all very well - but if you had seen us in the supermarket as little kids, we would have been hitting eachother!! Don't worry about that, if it happens, it will pass.

[Moomin]

But another btw - (sorry I'll shut up again in a minute) - I had rubbish pregnancies both times - SPD and placenta praevia BOTH times (I ask you!) and hyperemesis for good luck with dd2. Had to stay in hops for the last 6 weeks for both pregnancies which was terrible 2nd time round esp as I was away from dd1, but we muddled through!

(Dh has had the snip now though - couldn't do it again!)

[cheeset]

Hi artyjoe,
I waited till my ds started school then had my 2nd child. I waited 5yrs because ds was such a difficult child and I swore i'd never have another one!

Anyway I obviously changed my mind because I wanted ds to have a sibling and I knew I had more love to give, do you know what I mean?

Yes kids fight in supermarkets because it's boring and we are usually harrassed in those places but don't take them-I never do! Get a friend to have them!

My kids bicker in the morning 5 & 10, I sit them seperately and have behaviour strategies in place-'you do that and you DS is gone', or 'your telly will be switched off' or no park.

I wouldn't be without my sister. She used to hit me all the time, terrorised me I hated her but she is the first person I go to now when I need solace.[

[QueenofBleach]

Just becasue your first child has sleep problems doesn't mean your second will, so please don't let that put you off, we are the other way round with people telling us that our first was so great the next one is bound to be horrendous which pisses me off quite frankly but I take no notice. Age wise you are in the same situation as us and now at 37 me and 44 DH we have just started trying gor another one as we would love DD to have a sibling but it has taken me 2 years to get to this point. Work wise we couldn't be similar, I run a B&B and DH is self employed but working less outside the home as our business gets better so we are pretty much together 24/7 and I feel that DD benefits as she gets us both a lot and yes she goes to nursery 3 mornings a week. At the end of the day it is your and DH's decision, and as many other posters have said here the sleep thing will get better.

[bluejelly]

Definitely have another
You won't regret it and your dd will thank you in years to come

My dd is always hassling me to have another child, she is the only only child in her class and I think she really misses out on having a little bro or sis.

Go for it

[Canadiandream]

Artyjoe - no you're not being naive - there's no reason at all why you won't love another child just as much as you love your daughter. I totally understand why you're worried about that (if I'm honest it crosses my mind too!) but it doesn't have any substance to it.

We don't have a finite amount of love to give! If you're capable of loving one child then you're capable of loving another child!

I tend to think that if part of you wants a child then you should go for it. Do you ever meet someone who honestly regrets having a child - either one or more? But you do meet people who regret NOT having one...

[artyjoe]

Hi Lovemygirls, I don't take offence to your comments regarding discipline but I actually consider myself a very tough mummy as I was expecting our DD would take after me, which she does, so I knew from the start I had to be very tough with her. She is a wonderful child, I believe, because she has a lot of discpline, but also ridiculous amounts of love.

The sleep problems are different: She has the lungs of an opera singer (both myself and sister are singers) and she screams the house down until I come to her..and I don't even have to do anything like soothe her, once she knows I've arrived she goes back to sleep! We had to put flyers through the neighbours doors to warn them of the controlled crying as we've had people knock at 3am wondering what was wrong! She used to have terrible night terrors which there was nothing we could do about, and she has had a problem with drinking too much milk, we have eradicated that but she's waking up hungry and wanting food, but she's now on water and can help herself to a biscuit if she needs it so she's just waking out of habit now which is why I feel we are at the end of the road...soon anyway.

Anyway, we live with the sleep issues knowing it will end at some point, sooner rather than later with luck.

I think these replies have left me with a general feeling of 'go for it' rather than 'be afraid, be very afraid'...which I am sure will help when I talk to hubby later today.

[artyjoe]

Canadiandream...I do have an aunty who came to stay last year for 5 months (she live sin Scotland) to help us through an illness...and she definitely regrets having 4 children.

She banged on at me every day on and on about not having another, it will ruin my DD, life will be too hard etc etc, and although her position is different to mine, it stuck with me and that's what really turned me off trying...we were actually trying when she came to stay with us.

I'm very easily swayed by other people at the moment...hubby was booked in for the snip a few months ago on a Tuesday and on the Monday I spoke to a woman at the nursery who made an off hand comment about having a 6 year age gap between kids and it being wonderful and that was enough for me to stop the op!

I think subconsciously I must believe another is the right thing or I'd have gone with the op and I wouldn't have these fears...the comments regarding fighting siblings growing up to have wonderful relationships makes me feel better too!

[BeenleighOfTheDead]

Do it! If you're in any doubt, just do it. Having two is hard, but imho it's nowhere near as hard as one first time round. I could not begin to explain the joy that our second daughter has brought to our lives, and I couldn't ever have dreamed that it would be as much fun as it is. Mine are 23 months and 9 months, and they are starting to play together beautifully. It is wonderful. DO IT!!!

[nailpolish]

i agree - dont rationalise it - thats impossible and you wontget anywhere!

good luck withwhatever you decide x

[calebsmum]

Hi artyjoe, was in a smiliar position, my Ds is 2.7 and a bad sleeper. He ends up in bed with us most nights, i'm also very very close to him and we have a wonderful relationship. I hated been pregnant and giving birth and found the first few years quite difficult to be honest!

I've just found out that i'm expecting number 2 and am very happy about it, the experiences two siblings go through and share together can never be replicated. I'm very grateful for having 2 sisters as it's been a really support when there's been family upheaval.

Basically I think you end up regretting it more NOT having another one.

[artyjoe]

Congratulations Calebsmum! I have had a chat to hubby and he's been looking at the messages and is saying 'you don't hear about many people looking back thinking I wish I hadn't had more kids'...so it looks like the positivity of these responses may have helped us choose...we are going to go through the baby album tonight to tap into how it felt to have a small baby as it's easy to lose sight of it when you don't sleep. Thanks for all your replies, they are much appreciated - joe

[Moomin]

The trouble is with kids is that you are in each zone for such a short time that when you're actually doing it, yes you get knackered, but you live with it and you cope. When you look back at some of the stages (try this one when you spend time with a friend whose child is younger), you can find yourself going 'Oo, no, I couldn't do that bit again, it was AWFUL' and the bit could be nightfeeds / breastfeeding/ weaning/ teething/ potty-training / tantrums, etc etc. but they're never actually as bad when you're in the middle of it; you just get on with it.

Theorising about parenthood is useless I think. Divide a page into two and call it pros and cons. The cons will soon fill up the page and there is likely to be only one of two pros. But as long as one of the pros is to experience love like nothing else, it outweighs the other side every time.

[artyjoe]

Thanks Moomin, that almost makes me feel there is no choice! :-)

[edam]

Arty, as I said, I only have one. But I am one of three myself and am sooooo glad I have my sisters. There's a 14 year age gap with my youngest sister (second marriage) so I was worried when my stepmother was due but it is wonderful to have another sister. Middle sis and I fell in love with her the first time we saw her. Yes, my middle sister and I fought sometimes when growing up - kids do. But if anyone else ever interfered/looked at either sister the wrong way we were united! And we are so close now...

I think siblings are definitely a blessing. Even if you don't always get on, at least you have someone to have a jolly good moan about your parents. And to share any family problems with - I worry about ds when we are old, if he's still an only. My mother has no brothers and sisters. Her parents both died when she was in her early 20s and I know she felt very alone. She's told us all the family stories, but it's not the same as having someone who shared your childhood.

(I'm talking myself into no. 2 here, aren't I?)

[artyjoe]

Edam, I think you are definitely talking yourself into two!

I had a chat to hubby last night and we have decided to go for it and see if it will happen for us...having said that, I'm so sleep deprived today and have already managed a full blown arguement over pass the parcel (!) (and DD actually went through until 6am) that the thought of going near hubby to get pg is enough to make me scream

Thanks a lot - Joe

[chipkid]

my dd (who turned three today) was the best thing that ever happened to ds. They are as thick as thieves (even though there is a three year age gap). He was a very headstrong child and when dd came along she mellowed him in so many lovely ways.
Yes they fight and bicker and yes there is more work in juggling the lives of both of them but I wouldn't change my decision to have another for one second.

[doggiesayswoof]

I have a 3yo dd and am 7 weeks pg with no. 2. I couldn't make up my mind whether or not to have another and still felt a lot of doubts even though we tried for a good few months - I felt like changing my mind every other day.

However, we've started to tell family and friends and their reactions have helped a lot. People are delighted - my mum and mil both said immediately "Oh I'm glad dd isn't going to be an only" and then looked a bit sheepish...

Your example of your aunt regretting having 4 sounds a bit extreme. I don't know anyone who regrets having their dc.

Also, my dd doesn't know yet that she is going to be a big sister, but I know it will be the most exciting thing that could ever happen to her. She loves babies and loves being responsible and caring and I can already see that side of her personality will be drawn out when the baby is born.

Your situation - working at home and your dh being a stay at home dad - also sounds great. I am a little Dh and I both work f/t and we are going to have to struggle with 2 sets of childcare - at least you don't have to worry about that!

I say go for it, and the best of luck however you jump...

[doggiesayswoof]

Oh lord my post took too long to type - x-post with you artyjoe.

It's the right decision!!

[CBW]

I think there may be a bit of collective blindness on this chat. Just like no-one tells you how much hard work it is having a child no-one tells you how much harder it is looking after 2 children. Once you have done it there is no going back but I would say it is another huge leap in commitment. With one child one parent can have time off and be a human being. With two children you are always on duty. I agree you can't rationalise too much - I think you know inside how many children you want/need - but I don't think it is the idealistic picture painted here. IT IS HARD WORK.

[chocolateteapot]

We ummed and arred about having another one once DD got to 1. I think if we had been left to our own devices we would never had made the decision. Luckily nature took control and DS arrived a week after DD had started school (she was 4.8)

I had all the concerns you had about having another and had not enjoyed my first pregnancy (was sick up to 17 weeks, had a week off then started again. Had trouble walking towards the end then ended up with a very long labour and emergency section). I just couldn't imagine being able to love another child as I did DD.


But I do and there is a whole new type of love which is when I see them together. Yes they shout and scream at each other, but at times they play so beautifully together. I always felt our house was a bit intense when it was just the three of us. DS has completely lifted the mood. He has a fantastic sense of humour and there is now more laughter.

DD did struggle a bit coping having to share the attention she gets but it has done her good. It peaked on DS's 2nd birthday when she was sobbing in the bath that she felt so jealous of him, that he had taken us away from her. He had his 4th birthday 3 weeks ago and the child who sobbed in the bath is so very different. She spent ages making him a card, wrapping his present and was looking forward to his birthday instead.

We are very short on family to help us, well they don't at all is the reality. But both of us work from home which does make life much easier. Sorry that is so long, hope it helps a bit.

[EnglishTeeth]

I agree with what earlier posters have said: I think it's best to go with your heart rather than your head. DH and I are thinking about having a 2nd child (DS is 2.4 now) and, rationally, it's not good at all! I had severe ante and post natal depression, was traumatised by the birth and attempts to breasfeed. I ended up so ill with PND that I had a 5 month stay in the Mother and Baby Unit of our local psychiatric hospital and dread that DS might resent a new baby so much that he'll turn into the kind of horror that I was with my younger sister when we were children. And yet I just know that having (or trying for) another is the right thing to do. Whenever I imgagine the future I always imagine having more than one child. Sorry, I don't want to start rambling on about myself so best wishes for whatever you decide to do, I'm sure you'll make the right decision.

[Moomin]

As far as I'm concerned it's not an 'idealistic picture', it's actually my Real Life!

I never said it was easy - I had shitty pregnancies (see below) and I found the 1st year od dd2's life quite hard-going, making that transition from mother of 1 to mother of 2. I've also had to make a huge sacrifice career-wise as I wasn't prepared to compromise the choices I'd made about juggling home and work life, so I've set myself back a few rungs on the career ladder. BUT, I'm sure it's the right thing to do and it will work out in the long run.

It cerainly helps that dh is very much an equal partner in our child-rearing and I would have found it 100x harder without his support.

But, joe, you do have a choice! And also make sure you're strong enough to accept your lot if things don't go your way with ttc - as you know, it's not a given, sadly. Very good luck in what you decide. x

[happyathome]

i sympathize with your agonizing artyjoe.a lot of the same concerns for me too,so it's not just you.
i was trying,but have now gone back to avoiding and agonizing again,because i don't feel i can rely on my husband for enough support(long hours e.t.c.) and at the moment
i really need it.i keep visualising it all turning into a nightmare and do believe that it would not become the 'ideal' picture of family happiness,then again other days,like you i can see wonderful opportunities in a family of four.
all i can add is that we are onlies,and as adults we are happy about it(in my view families can cause as much stress as happiness sometimes,if not close).So many testamonies about people with sibs feeling alone and unsupported too.Because of this,i don't see the alone in adulthood issue a problem,because if you bring your daughter up well balanced e.t.c. ,hopefully she will have good relationships when older and more chance of a family of her own.
your situation,definately sounds more promising for the addition of another though.
trying to follow my heart,but my head still takes over and confuses me,is that you too?.
how do you all know it's your heart that's talking?
thanks everyone for all your additions to the thread,i've found it very interesting too.
good luck artyjoe.my hugs are with you!
STRESSTEDDY,are you still out there and agonizing too,any nearer with your decision?