Fellow Attachment Parents - support please

[bobthebaby]

Please post if you wear/sleep with/breastfeed your babies until they wean and generally have a child centred approach to parenting. I want to feel normal just for a small while, to counteract the MIL giving me the "rod for your own back" talks and those "oh, you are innocent but you will learn the error of your ways" looks.

Not to mention the auntie (a Karitane nurse, which is a bit like a Maternity Nurse in the UK I think) who has never met ds but still rings up and says he should be on solids, formula etc.

My own mum tolerated my style for a while, but now ds is getting to 6 months she is pressuring water at night, use the pram more etc.

My other antenatal class buddies all seem to want their bodies back (give up bf) their lives back (get in a baby sitter and go out) and some sleep (controlled crying). I don't feel like this at all.

Send good vibes please.

[Jimjams]

Do it YOUR way.

When I had ds1 - I was all for doing things the normal way. I did bfeed him until he was 13 months, but gave him all the vaccinations, shoved him full of antibiotics, left him to cry, had him in his cot and was very judgemental about just about every other parenting style. Then he became autistic.

So with ds2 I've done things more my way. I'm sure vaccinations and antibiotics contributed to ds1 problems, so he hasn't received a single jab (funnily enough the medical profession has been very supportive of this decision, it's just other mother's who get their knickers in a twist about it). He had a bit of a rough birth, and tough early few months (had an infection). I felt quite strongly that he needed to be in bed with us, and he spent half of every night in with us for the first year. At 18 months he is still bfed. He sometimes goes in his buggy but often walks with me now - especially if I don't have ds1 with me as well. He's lovely, happy, sleeps all night.

If you're happy tell everyone else to butt out. Failing that- move to Totnes- everyone does attachment child centred parenting there

[boyandgirl]

I don't really do what you do, btb, I'm lean more towards the Gina Ford style, but with my own interpretation, eg if dd wants boob then she gets it, even if it's not 'the right time'. But, quite frankly, if it works for you and your family, then go ahead. And by your family I mean you, your baby, your partner, your other babies. Who else matters? Everyone else is just opinions! After all, they get to hand the baby back, you're the one who's bringing them up. My mum was shocked that I wake a sleeping baby. My dad is puzzled that I have no intention of moving on to formula now that dd is on solids. On the other hand, some of their advice/suggestions/opinions have proved helpful. I listen, I acknowledge, and then I go ahead and do what I think is right anyway! So go ahead and enjoy your babies while they're babies. Maybe your mil will say, in a couple of years time, 'what a good mother she is, what lovely children she has' but more likely she'll find something else to comment on ('you shouldn't teach him to read, that's the school's job' )

[metired]

i breast fed my children until they wanted to stop, ist dd was 2 1/2yrs when she stopped, 3rd dd was 18mnths, 2nd dd and ds were just under 1, do want you feel comfortable doing and you will have happy contented children with a happy contented mum

[Jimjams]

Oh and bob- whenever I got fed up with the comments saying he should be in his own cot I just read a bit of the continuum concept and thought that what I was doing was fine. I would have used a sling a lot more as well if my back hadn't eventually given out

[bossykate]

not quite, jimjams, we have friends there and they are (or at least were) Fordies! i wonder how they have fitted in.

[lisalisa]

Message withdrawn

[crossma]

Bobthebaby, I wish people my own mother included would keep there opinions to themselves, after all we are all only trying to do the very best by our children whatever we choose. I was just like you - am very child-centered, IMO children are children for a very short time and it should be the happiest time of their lives if we can possibly make it that way. I b/fed til my children choose to stop one was nearly 3 years old the other was just 1 year old but they both choose when to stop themselves. I was almost bed-ridden for the first few months of one of my children's early months and so baby slept with me while dad went to the spare room. It didn't harm us and ds went to cot after 7 months without any problems, children are all different and if it works for you and your child then do it I say, though I know it is hard. I too was/am completely surrounded by friends who just want their bodies/lives etc back. It doesn't suit me to have this type of attitude, but like children adults are all different too and the sooner people respect other peoples choices the better so there! Off my soapbox now but hoped this has helped! Also, only two days ago I actually had someone admit that they wish they had done it my way - which was quite a shock as she was one of the most dissaproving in the early days! Also when one of my children was very clingy I just hugged her more so that she relaxed and now she has being more outgoing and relaxed than the others in her circles at the various groups.

[mamajinks]

bob - Be strong, you're doing the right thing.

My ds is 16 months old, still b/feeding at night and still sleeping in our bed. He's happy, I'm happy and dh is happy and that's my yardstick as to how well we are doing as parents/a family. Don't let your yardstick be the opinion of your MIL.

Just stay focussed and remember that as long as your baby is happy and thriving you aren't doing anything wrong.

Whenever I'm waivering I have a look at Dr Jay's Attachment Parenting website - a real antidote to all that Gina Ford/Baby Whisperer stuff. Remember they're in it to sell books and IMO any advice that starts from the assumption that all babies come out the same like widgets off a production line is wrong, wrong, wrong. Your baby is an individual and only you know what's best.

Keep the faith!

[Jimjams]

Really bossykate?? I thought Totnes would be a GF free zone

[bossykate]

jimjams, i'm sorry, every time i comment on one of your posts it's to disagree in some small but doubtless v. irritating way... they were quite committed GFers - this was before they moved to Totnes, and now have just had a new arrival. we are hoping to see them quite soon - i wonder if there will be a change in philosophy? now of course i will be absolutely recognisable to them if they post/lurk here!

[Jimjams]

oh I wasn't doubting bossykate. just intrigued. I wouldn't dare read GF in Totnes - I'd be worried about being lynched (peacefuly of course). They'd probably have to travel to Exeter to buy the books

[bossykate]

i didn't dare mention it show it in public where i live...

[bossykate]

i sometimes think you have to have a number of children just so you can try out the various theories...

[bobthebaby]

Hi, thanks for the words of support. Not sure about Totnes reference as I live in NZ, but the rest has been helpful.
I've found an unlikely ally in the delaying solids ongoing family debate in my Plunket nurse (which is like a HV), wouldn't tell her about the co-sleeping thing (largely as none of her business, but also don't fancy ds being put on any "at risk" type registers).
She wrote in my well child book that I should continue exclusive breastfeeding as he was alert and happy. As I show book to MIL each time, this may do the trick.

[aloha]

I also think that many GF followers would describe themselves as extremely 'child centred' due to the fact that the routines are absolutely demanding on parents and your whole life has to revolve around your child's sleep and eating! In fact, I think we'd all describe ourselves as child centred. I absolutely loathe the rather self-righteous jargon of it all - with the implication that if you don't follow a book (any book) to the letter then you must have miserable children who don't love you.

[aloha]

I also think that many GF followers would describe themselves as extremely 'child centred' due to the fact that the routines are absolutely demanding on parents and your whole life has to revolve around your child's sleep and eating! In fact, I think we'd all describe ourselves as child centred. I absolutely loathe the rather self-righteous jargon of it all - with the implication that if you don't follow a book (any book) to the letter then you must have miserable children who don't love you.

[boyandgirl]

Good point, aloha. I never imagined that I'd be a 'scheduling' mum, in fact both babies spent their first 2-3 weeks in our bed, and I only changed what we were doing because I found that the whole family was happier that way. Even though I love having the babies in my bed and the relaxed, almost dreamy feeding and interacting. Certainly my life right now is virtually totally child-centred, but for the sake of the whole family (and I most emphatically do not mean anyone outside me, dh and our babies) sometimes we have to compromise. I don't mind the night feeds, but dh can't cope with such a groggy dw. I would say that I'm child-centred in that I don't expect the childrens' needs to be secondary to mine, but I would prefer to call my parenting style (labels again!) family-centred.

Another point: one reason I bought-in so strongly to the scheduling concept, despite my instinct against it, was that I was bad with PND, and knowing what came next was an important crutch. If I had been feeding on demand for example I would have been utterly lost and confused.

[boyandgirl]

By the way, I hope the other attachment parents on this thread don't feel that I'm interloping. I'm very interested and attracted by this style of parenting - just don't do it myself!

[SueW]

aloha I like your point. I reviewed Contented Baby for our NCT newsletter recently and wrote 'the Gina Ford plan is more baby-led than any other book I have ever come across'.

[aloha]

What put me off the whole AP thing was the often extremely aggressive and intolerant attitudes I found when looking around when ds was tiny. Like this one, aimed at people who don't co-sleep for years on end:
"For those who consider unlimited access to their sexual partner more important than meeting the needs of their baby, cats ownership is a wonderful alternative to parenthood. You can just toss some Nine Lives in a bowl and frolic around the house whenever the mood hits you."
OR this one:
Co-sleeping is not right for everyone. Heavy drinkers and drug addicts should avoid sleeping with their babies. Of course, these folks should probably avoid parenthood altogether.
OR this one:
Most sleep disorders are not biologically based, but rather, created by well intended parents. Making oneself available by intercom is simply not meeting the nighttime needs of an infant.
Or this one, about sleep training:
"The baby has not suddenly discovered quiet content. He is simply exhausted from his futile efforts to be nurtured. Fifteen years later, these same parents shrug their shoulders and wonder why their kids are shutting them out."

Hmm....

BTW I don't ever smack, try not to shout, slept with my ds when he was very tiny, let him do pretty much what he wants unless it is dangerous. But he sleeps alone 90% of the time, goes to bed at bedtime, has a regular nap (used to have two GF style naps) and we did cc at 8months that made us all much happier. I happen to think that sleep is absolutely vital for some children's happiness and wellbeing - my son being one of those children. He is an unbelievably happy child and exceptionally loving. So is my stepdaughter, who my dh also left to cry because she didn't sleep through at 11months. She absolutely worships her daddy and is a lovely girl. I suppose she may turn round at 15 and decide to hate us all, but I very much doubt that this will have anything to do with being left to cry for a while for a couple of nights before she was one. Like my ds, she also loves her bed.
I did read all the books, but in the end went with what was right for my child and for me. I just love the blithe assumption in AP that sleep disturbance is nothing, and you should enjoy it because it won't last. So why is it used as torture then?

[Tinker]

I must admit I have never really read any books about parenting, prior to or since having my daughter (think that's probably quite a 'middle class' thing to do ). However, I've never understood why you have to be one or the other. Surely most parents take a bit from whatever suits them and their child? From mumsnet, I've realised that I'm quite GF about routines but I'm pretty relaxed about everything else. Not sure why some people have to align themselves strictly to one camp or the other (if they do)

[bobthebaby]

Hey, I didn't mention as my problem that I was sleep deprived, or ask for a critique of AP. I asked for support from other people for whom AP works.
I could get a million arguments against AP from my MIL and don't need to do it again here.

I wanted to hear from people who (like me) want to attachment parent, but find that sometimes its a little hard to find people to discuss it with over all the voices advocating the opposite (which is kind of where the thread seems to be going.)

If it helps lets remove the "child centred" bit from my original post as Mumsnetters are all child centred. Let's even avoid the whole sleep thing if it can keep the thread about the rest of the elements of attachment parenting. What about focussing on baby wearing - haven't seen that be too controversial yet

[aloha]

Oh, I see, butt out of my thread, is it??

I actually logged on to say, something along the lines of 'well, of course, whatever you feel is best' - but hey, I'm obviously 'the enemy'. Attachment Paranoia here we go.

[aloha]

OK, deep breath. Look, I did feel you suggested on a couple of other threads that I and other posters were cruel to their babies. Now you want a thread where people only tell you how wonderful you are (it seems to me). You may feel other people are judging you/telling you what to do, but that ain't merely a feature of people who don't swallow the whole AP thing. Personally I would just tell you MIL to butt out or smile sweetly to her face and then vent on Mumsnet. You'll get lots of support for that.
BTW I did have a sling for ds, but babywearing sounds so odd! I also met a really despairing mum who gazed at me in envy with ds snoozing in his sling when he was a few months old and told me her baby screamed the minute he saw his!

[Jimjams]

I'm with Tinker. Different things suit different Mums, and different children. Ds1 was much easier to leave to cry than ds2, mainly because he would settle down fairly quickly and go to sleep. Ds2 however would still be screaming an hour later having pooed himself.

I'm all for bits of attachment parenting, and bits of routine. Surely we all mix and match? Unfortunately MIL's only think there is one way to bring up children and that is "their way". (If I followed my MIL's methods I would spend every Friday evening washing every single toy my children own- sod that I'll stick to drinking a glass of wine).

I don't think anyone has sounded smug on here. I can understand from Bobs point of view that it is very difficult to be around others if you have different views and different concerns- and that can be isolating.

You'd like Totnes Bob. Can't think of anywhere in NZ that is quite like it. Where in NZ are you from btw? My grandmother came from NZ and I worked in Dannevirke (!!) for a bit.