Children's bedtimes and sleep problems: read Professor Tanya Byron's answers to your questions

[GeraldineMumsnet]

We're delighted that consultant clinical psychologist Prof Tanya Byron is our webchat guest on Monday evening to answer your questions about children's sleep - how much they need at different ages, how you can stop bedtimes turning into a battle, and how can you encourage your children to sleep through the night.

Tanya is leading the Bedtime Live team on Channel Four on Tuesday evenings at 8pm, trying to provide parents with techniques to get under-10s into bed by 9pm and to get teens into good sleep habits.

You've already been discussing her warnings about the effects of sleep deprivation on children's development on this thread.

So, whether your children will be soundly asleep or deploying endless delaying tactics at 9pm on Monday, do come and put your question about children's sleep to Tanya.

You can find out more here about Bedtime Live and the topics it has covered so far. The next prog (Tues 9 April, 8pm) will look at the effect of lack of sleep on first-time fathers.

[Fionaloo]

5 months old DD can only nap 30 -45 each time in her cot. But hours in her pram. She has no problem sleeping through the night. Can you advise what I need to do to extend her nap instead if taking her out in her pram to get enough sleep time. Thanks!!

[WantOurRoomBack]

Hello Tanya,
Have n/c as I am so embarrassed but our 5 year old ds still sleeps in our room and refuses to sleep or go to sleep without one of us there. He has his own bed.
How can we get him into his own room and off to sleep at an earlier hour?

[Caffeineaddict07]

Hi Tanya,

Our baby suffered from Colic and reflux and as a consequence always had sleeping difficulties. At two months we saw a paediatrician who prescribed reflux medication, and also diagnosed lactose intolerance. Since commencing medication and lactose free milk things did improve in that he no longer cries for five hours at a time, and day time naps lengthened to up to an hour maybe twice a day. He has a dummy as during the bad times he really needed it. I was also forced to rock him to sleep, which later changed to feeding to sleep. Though in the day i still have to push in the pram or he becomes overtired. We also have to carry him for two hours plus to make sure he is in a deep enough sleep to put down- if not he wakes screaming. Once put down he can sleep for maybe two hours (sometimes less) then he can wake every two hours. There are nights he wakes every half an hour. Occasionally all that is needed is the dummy replacing, other times he cannot be settled with a pat and we have to pick up to calm him, and other times he is wide awake and the only way he will go back to sleep is if he is fed. He is not the same every night so there is no consistency in his behaviour or sleep. He is a very light sleeper and in general the slightest noise wakes him, he does not seem to easily make the transition to deep sleep. I can rock him for 20 minutes plus and he will still wake 10 mins after stopping.

We have moved him into his own room and try to keep to a bedtime routine though this doesn't seem to help in anyway. We have started to try and sleep train but he became unwell with a viral illness so we have had no success.

I just would appreciate some advice on how to change things and hopefully improve the situation.

[DrTanyaByron]

@cheesethief

How can I get my nearly 5 year old to stay in her bed? She wakes up and sneaks in mine every night, it doesn't bother me too much but she can be tired and grumpy during the day. She doesn't respond to rewards and says she gets frightened.

Cow bells on the door / scrunched her newspaper around your bed whatever will help you hear the little stealth person sneak in. Then immediate return to bed with a sssshhh and leave and rapid return thereafter. This means stay outside her room to return her if she comes out with no fuss or attention or to go in intermittently if she's upset to reassure her briefly. A few nights of exhausting slog and she and you will be sleeping through!

[JaffaSnaffle]

Hello Tanya- thank you for coming on here. I posted yesterday but in summary:

My 5 month old is waking frequently in the night - up to 10 times some nights. She is breastfed to sleep. Got worse after weekend away. Now has started rolling all over her cot and waking herself up. Tried the shushing, putting hand in her etc, but she becomes very upset, and wakes herself up further by thrashing her legs about in a sort of hip flick! Help! Is she too young for this? I don't like to see her get so upset...

[DrTanyaByron]

@Fionaloo

5 months old DD can only nap 30 -45 each time in her cot. But hours in her pram. She has no problem sleeping through the night. Can you advise what I need to do to extend her nap instead if taking her out in her pram to get enough sleep time. Thanks!!

Put her down in the cot and sit nearby with hand through bars as reassuring presence on her stomach. No patting or rubbing as over stimulating. As she gets used to cot be further and further away from cot over next few days until she able to fall asleep alone.

[Fionaloo]

Tanya thanks!!!

[DrTanyaByron]

@JaffaSnaffle

Hello Tanya- thank you for coming on here. I posted yesterday but in summary:

My 5 month old is waking frequently in the night - up to 10 times some nights. She is breastfed to sleep. Got worse after weekend away. Now has started rolling all over her cot and waking herself up. Tried the shushing, putting hand in her etc, but she becomes very upset, and wakes herself up further by thrashing her legs about in a sort of hip flick! Help! Is she too young for this? I don't like to see her get so upset...

The problem is that she relies on being breasted to fall asleep so if she wakes she with require you and your breasts to get back to sleep. If she is getting more nutrition during the day the breast milk at night isn't required for nutrition although one feed before you go to bed might be necessary as you wean her.

Feed but put down awake and sit by cot but not near until she falls asleep. She needs to associate her cot with falling asleep not you and your breast so leave before she fully asleep.

[IwishIwasmoreorganised]

Why don't children always sleep for the same length of time? If they go to bed late, why don't they sleep a bit later the next morning? Drives me mad if they've been up a bit late and are cranky the next day!

[Chirish]

My 8 and a half month old is still yet to sleep through. We have tried the pick up, put down/controlled crying method/cuddles/bottles of milk etc and not much seems to work. He has had a cough and cold on and off for the past few weeks and that does wake him and sometimes keep him up, but what other methods can we try?!! He is a happy chilled out boy and naps two/three times a day (approx 30 mins each time). He goes to bed at 7pm with a bottle of milk and goes down with no problem at all. Its just that he keeps waking up in the night!!! help

[toomuchpink]

Thanks Tanya
DT2 does nap ok. Falls asleep alone no problem most days. Longer term I think a later bedtime for DT2 may be inevitable. Must later than 7.30pm seems too late to me at her age though, but maybe I am being too strict?

[mrsbeereeves]

Hi Tanya ... same question as many others ... how to manage early waking? 3 yr old sharing room with his 5 yr old brother, good bedtime, self settles at 7pm but wide awake any time from 5am to 6am (with the odd visit to "find us" during the night) If we try and return him we get loud tantrums, only thing we find that will keep him quiet (but still not asleep) is letting him watch kids programmes on the iPad which probably isn't great ... any suggestions please?? Thank you!!

[scampidoodle]

Hi,
To summarise my question:
You said on your programme that you don't recommend any form of sleep training for under 6 month olds so how do you help a young baby to sleep when the usual shushing, patting, being there till they fall asleep don't work? Or they work but the baby wakes as soon as it all stops...

Thanks

[DrTanyaByron]

@MoreSnowPlease

Do you not worry that we are all getting it wrong by trying to 'sleep train' at all? I mean, surely if sleep issues are so prevalent then they are normal? I speak as a very tired mum of a 9 month old who wakes every 30-40 mins and always has. I just worry that this is actually normal and by 'training' him I would be going against what nature intended....

By six months a child should be able to fall asleep on their own in their cot however this doesn't work for everyone and if sleep training does not feel right then it's not for you.

Children change sleep cycles every 30 ish minutes and so if they have not learnt to associate their cot with sleep when they briefly wake between sleep cycles they will require you to be near them. If this is not disruptive to you or your family then I would not tell you to change that. Alternatively you could co sleep if that works for you.

Sleep training is offered to parents whose lives are hanging by threads because they and their children are so exhausted and all are struggling. Plus children require good quality unbroken sleep for healthy cognitive and physical development.

See Nhs guidelines re recommended sleep training for those that require it for their family to function.

[DrTanyaByron]

@scampidoodle

Hi,
To summarise my question:
You said on your programme that you don't recommend any form of sleep training for under 6 month olds so how do you help a young baby to sleep when the usual shushing, patting, being there till they fall asleep don't work? Or they work but the baby wakes as soon as it all stops...

Thanks

I am not a fan of controlled crying. However you can help your baby learn good sleep patterns by being near them but not ssshing or patting as this will stimulate them.. Try a hand on the chest and a quiet presence.

[LaVitaBellissima]

I have twins aged 2.5 they are still in cotbeds, and after watching the 1st episode of bedtime live, I think they will be staying in them (with lids) until they go to school

What is your best advice for the transisition of cot to bed, and in particular to twins?

[DrTanyaByron]

@Chirish

My 8 and a half month old is still yet to sleep through. We have tried the pick up, put down/controlled crying method/cuddles/bottles of milk etc and not much seems to work. He has had a cough and cold on and off for the past few weeks and that does wake him and sometimes keep him up, but what other methods can we try?!! He is a happy chilled out boy and naps two/three times a day (approx 30 mins each time). He goes to bed at 7pm with a bottle of milk and goes down with no problem at all. Its just that he keeps waking up in the night!!! help

If he falls asleep sucking on the bottle then that's the problem. He needs to be out down awake and then gentle but non reinforcing presence until he falls asleep. Move further away from cot each night as he drops off.

[CreatureRetorts]

My babies slept better once they were on their tummies - they had reflux.

DrTanya do you know how many babies may be Undiagnosed with silent reflux or intolerances which may impact on sleep? (certainly did mine)

[DrTanyaByron]

@LaVitaBellissima

I have twins aged 2.5 they are still in cotbeds, and after watching the 1st episode of bedtime live, I think they will be staying in them (with lids) until they go to school

What is your best advice for the transisition of cot to bed, and in particular to twins?

Ha ha with lids! I know you don't mean it....

Wheyu do bed transition you cld sit between them and Sssshhh them as they drop off or stand outside the room and consistently but non reinforcingly (ie no chat or attention) put them back to bed (rapid return) If you are calm and consistent they will get the message over a few nights 10 days tops.

Did this with my DS who is now 15. Just asked him if he was traumatised by it and he just gave me that teen boy 'what you on about..." look. He seems ok to me!

[cicililly]

Dear Tanya

My 6 month old daughter still isnt sleeping through the night. Her sleeping habits are actually getting worse. I feed her as much as I can during the day with formula and 3 solid meals. She roars crying at night when I put her down at 7pm and takes about a half an hour before she falls asleep. She wakes at 11 for a bottle and then after that for the past 2 weeks she has been waking about another 3 times and its takes ages for her to get back to sleep, lots of crying. We usually give her 2 feeds during the night at 1 and 4 but she doesnt take a lot of her bottle at these feeding times. We tried to let her cry last night to wean her off the night feeds but the crying went on for ages. It would be much better for us all if she could drop these night feeds but I am afraid in case she is crying because she is hungry. It is becoming very tough and exhausting. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards

C

[LBsBongers]

Hello Tanya, put a question on yesterday but similar to JaffaSnaffle as in have a frequent waking 5 month old.

You advise to put down awake to break the association with BF and sleep, DD2 gets baby rage if I do this, so I embark on pick up put down which normally ends up with her conking out from the upset, ie she's asleep being put down.

If only it was as simple as putting her down in her cot and walking away

[ImNotCute]

How much crying do you think is acceptable when sleep training a toddler?

My 15 month old is mostly fed to sleep. After watching your programme I tried for 4 nights to settle him with a gradual retreat method but he was hysterical, it felt wrong. The baby of a similar age in your programme didn't seem to cry at all. I'm back to feeding to sleep for now.