Challenging the use of homophobic language in schools: Mumsnet and Stonewall campaign

[RebeccaMumsnet]

"That's so gay." Um, actually it probably isn't.

It's also something most of us don't want to hear, and it's absolutely something young people shouldn't have to hear in the classroom.
That's why, for Anti-Bullying Week this year, we've teamed up with Stonewall on Gay. Let’s Get Over It, a campaign to provide guidance to schools, parents and young people, and to address the misuse of the word 'gay'.

Mumsnetters talked about the need for the campaign here, and you can get involved in it here.


Do share on Twitter #GetOverIt, Facebook and Google+ - the more people know about the campaign, the more we can challenge unacceptable language and change the culture of our schools. And do feel free to discuss it here too.

Tomorrow, Will Young will be coming into MNHQ for a webchat about the campaign at 12pm - watch active for the webchat thread which will be up later and post your questions to him there.

[HyvaPaiva]

I agree that homophobic language needs to be challenged and not only in schools. If you are championing this campaign, MNHQ, you might want to delete threads such as the current one in AIBU about the OP who 'giggled like a schoolgirl' because a patient where she works is called 'Mr Gay'.

[Merguez]

I am not trying to 'make out' anything. I said I wasn't sure, and I am still keeping an open mind.
I am very, very anti-homophobia. I used to be a journalist for a gay magazine. I am interested in linguistics and how the meanings of words have evolved over time. And I think context and intention is everything.
Was hoping to participate in a reasoned debate about this, did not wish to make anyone angry which I seem to have done, so I think I will bow out now.

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

"A bit how it evolved from its original meaning of 'happy' I guess. I would be interested in hearing from someone who understands linguistics."

I'm not an aspect but as far as I know "gay" used to be one of many euphemisms for homosexual or camp behaviour, back when same sex relationships were illegal. Gay's rather nice old meaning - being bright and showy, as well as happy and liberated - meant that homosexual men started using it of each other, kind of a fond way of talking about something which most of society hated.

Clearly that transition - a nice word being adopted by an oppressed group to describe themselves - is completely different from the more recent transition. Using gay as an insult means taking what is now the core word to describe that group and using it to mean stupid/crap/ugly/non-functional as well. That's a hostile transition, done from the outside and creating an analogy between homosexuality and really negative things.

How would you feel if a word which was the main way you described something key about yourself, became a synonym for all things shit?

"You missed that goal! You're so Chinese!"

"Wow, that singer is shit, he's a proper single parent."

"The new managerial structure at work is totally Christian."

What's so utterly crap about this is that we've pretty effectively rejected saying people are "Irish" for stupid, or "mongs" or other offensive terms related to disability, because it's plainly obvious that's it hurtful and offensive. And now this. FFS.

[Devora]

QueenoftheSarf, I was at secondary school in the late 70s/early 80s, and we certainly used the word gay!

Do you remember the Tom Robinson Band song, 'Glad to be gay'? Written 1976, became a cult hit about two years later.

[Devora]

Yes, Elephants, it's bizarre how many people on this thread (and similar ones) are insistent that gay people have got this ALL WRONG, that we're getting our knickers in a twist about absolutely nothing at all...

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

LayMizzRarb So are you trying to tell me that all the women I know who are called Gay, who are aged roughly 50 and older, were named by their parents after a derogatory term for homosexuals? I really, really doubt it.

[hareinthemoon]

Thank you Elephants; really clear.

[StepAwayFromTheEcclesCakes]

when my boys were younger and went through a phase of saying it I used to say, 'yes... good as you G.A.Y' and then went on to explain about the gay rights movement. they seem to have grown up ok and are not homophobic in any way as far as I can see. I used to work in education as an advisor and we tried to get schools to tackle it too but the amount of teachers who pooh poohed it as just a word... they don't mean it, don't know what it means... doesn't mean the same anymore etc, was quite shocking.

[QueenoftheSarf]

Devora - oh yes I do remember that song "Sing if you're glad to be gay, sing if you're happy that way..." but it certainly went right over my head at the time. I was out in the sticks mind you and Tom Robinson was probably at the vanguard of the gay movement.

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

I meant "not an expert" rather than an "aspect" (WTF :)) earlier.

"It's only since relatively recently that it's been in common usage as a term describing being sexually attracted to people of the same sex and not to people of the opposite sex."

I have a relative named Gay who knew a lot of gay men and women through her work, and was used from an early age to her name having a double meaning. From 19402-1950s I would think. She was fine about it, although it could be confusing, "I'm Gay" for instance can seem like a bit of a non sequitur at a party. :o

[Andro]

For the record, I do agree that there is an issue with some of the language used - and more importantly the implied meaning of some of the language - but I also think that fear of potentially causing offense is also a problem because it inhibits dialogue.

[QueenoftheSarf]

What's so utterly crap about this is that we've pretty effectively rejected saying people are "Irish" for stupid, or "mongs" or other offensive terms related to disability, because it's plainly obvious that's it hurtful and offensive. And now this. FFS.

Yes, they died out because language changes and evolves and so this will too. Mark my words.

[FabricQueen]

I used to use the word gay as an insult, in a light-hearted and non-thinking way.

I am now gay. I have been with my partner for almost a year and it's been about 2 years since I started thinking about my sexuality and realising what I had been ignoring for so long. I'm 30, and I wouldn't use the word gay as an insult now, I consider it very bad taste and upsetting when people do so. I grew up, and wised up. Some of the attitudes on this thread are so sad though.

What does it honestly matter if someone is gay or straight, really? I can't believe we are still having this conversation with so many. This is like calling someone the N word, or making them wear a yellow star on their clothing at all times or sit on a different section of the bus. Anything which oppresses a minority, yes including bandying around slang derogatory names for them unthinkingly, is bloody awful. I don't understand why this is still hard to grasp for folk.

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

What really worries me about this issue, is that people are reluctant to pick up on it because deep down in secret, they actually think gay people are a little bit less good, a bit different, pretty fair game for comparing with something that's not as good as you'd wanted.

84% of teenagers who describe themselves as gay are finding this upsetting. These are our children. I'm an adult and my gay friends still won't kiss their partners goodbye at the airport, or hold hands on a night out, for fear of attracting abuse and violence. Don't we want our kids to grow up without fear of what may come from just being normal and having normal adult relationships in their own way?

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

"language changes and evolves and so this will too"

Yeah but it's not magic, language changes because people use words differently. Same goes for the person who posted the dictionary definition of gay below. Do you think the nice people at the dictionary publishers decided that gay made a good word for negative things by picking it out of a hat?! No, dictionaries try to reflect the changing way people use words. If I started using "Londoner" to mean a completely despicable person tomorrow, and it caught on, soon "utterly shit person" would be next to the word Londoner in the dictionary.

I'm sure the meaning of the word will change, but you can hurry that along by making it clear that it's NOT acceptable to use a word for someone's perfectly legit sexual orientation to mean rubbish. It's only going to change when people change it!

[Devora]

QueenoftheSarf - and I had you down as a born and bred SarfLondoner

I tell you, TRB was BIG round Norwood and Camberwell...

[noblegiraffe]

Will there be a campaign about this? In a society that highly values equality it seems that some are actually more equal than others.

The suggestion that gays are more equal than Christians and get all the attention is just jaw-dropping. A Christian country. Your elders get free seats in the House of Lords (how many gay mps can you name? How many more do you think are hiding it?), schools are required by law to perform a daily act of worship of a broadly Christian nature, 1 in 4 primary schools are C of E, pretty much all of them are currently preparing a Nativity, and you're complaining that an Internet forum and a campaign group are collaborating to try to stop gay kids being made to feel like shit?

Seriously?

[SnapespeareSong]

Thank you for this.

Ds1 (15) has always identified as bisexual, and as we see no shame at all in this...and he doesn't deal with people well socially sometimes (aspergers-wonder-kid) he thought the best way of tackling 'that's so gay' was to declare his sexuality.

He has been threatened, belittled, physically attacked and driven to school-refusal because of homophobic bullying.

DS2 (14) recently came out. Same school. Not the same sort of problems, as his attitude is a little different (not victim blaming DS1, different people deal with confrontation in different ways.)

I love my children. I will not have anyone cause them grief because of who they cannot help but love.

(DD is straight incidentally. I feel I would win something if we're playing
Poker. I'm not sure what.)

[SnapespeareSong]

And now that I have read some of the comments...

Yes it's important. It belittles, it reduces someone's sexuality to the 'other' - to be mocked. 'Those socks are so gay' really? Are they involved in a same-socks-relationship? To call something gay is to reduce its status to being the 'bitch.' To fear lesbians because they don't 'need' men and to mock gay men because they are seen as less than men... Because one is the 'bitch'

It's not ok.

[Devora]

Loving the same-socks relationship

All best to your boys, Snapespeare. Have you/they looked at the 'It Gets Better' website? It really DOES get better, IME.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Same-socks relationship Very good snapes

[NancyShrew]

Im not sure why, I suppose I don't really want them to get the idea that having a same sex partner would be an option for them. Even though I know that people are born gay. Id rather their eyes weren't opened to the possibility just yet thanks.

Words fail me, but that is genuinely one of the most disgusting things I have ever read in my life. I hope with a mother like you, your children are straight, for their sake.

[JeanBodel]

"elskovs Mon 18-Nov-13 18:39:28

I guess I just don't want it spelt out.

Im not sure why, I suppose I don't really want them to get the idea that having a same sex partner would be an option for them. Even though I know that people are born gay. Id rather their eyes weren't opened to the possibility just yet thanks.

I guess that is a bit homophobic."



I hope this thread/campaign inspires people to take a good look at their own attitudes to homosexuality, and how they are passing on those attitudes to their children.

If you are happy for a child to know that they may, when grown up, have a loving relationship with a member of the opposite sex, then you should also be happy for your child to know that they may, when grown up, have a loving relationship with a member of the same sex.

Anything else is homophobic.

[whatagreatname]

I was just talking to ds age 12 and he said that at his school anyone heard using the word gay in a negative way would have an automatic two day exclusion, a 'new thing' as he put it.

[JeanBodel]

I remember when my son was learning to write. I looked at what he was doing and I said to my DH, 'He's going to be left-handed'.

We didn't say anything to him, of course. We told him to use whichever hand felt most comfortable. He swapped for a time the way they all do, but in the end he has settled on - being left-handed.

That's what being gay should be like for our kids.

It wasn't so long ago children weren't even told there was an option to be left-handed. They had to be right-handed. And if they persisted in their deviant ways various repressive methods were used to make them 'normal'.

Didn't change what they were, though. They were still left-handed kids, forced into being right-handed.

Being gay should not be like this.