Thinking of moving to France. But I know nothing about it - help

[Flighttattendant]

Hello,

this is a sudden thing that came upon me the other day when ds1 started asking about living elsewhere. He mentioned America, then France.

I suddenly thought 'why not?'

I've only been a few times but am very fond of the place. I have A level French, am a fairly good linguist though obv would need to get back into it.

I'm thinking pragmatically...when is the best time to uproot the kids? Ds1 likes his school, he is just 7. Ds2 hasn't started anything yet and is just 3...he begins preschool in sept.

I am looking to go back to work, not sure what as, but something. But currently we have help from the state.

I am worried about 3 things. 1, how easy is it to live there if you don't have the capital to buy a house? 2, is it possible to work part time, is there any kind of subsidy available for a single parent? and 3, what is health care like, including dentists...is it all private?

I think it might just be a dream given that we have literally no money and not a lot of support. But I would like to consider it in the future, anyway - if not quite yet.

Thanks for any advice or thoughts.

[catherinedenerve]

Also be aware that you will have no health coverage unless you have contributed (worked) for a certain amount of time. It used to be one month full time, it might be more now. You still have access to doctors,etc. of course, but on a strictly private basis.

Do not assume that it is easy to find a job, it really isn't, even for native speakers.

[Aminata100]

Hi,

Here is a website that has a lot of info, there's a forum on it too.

www.expatica.com/fr/main.html

About the language, I moved to a different country at the age of 8 and am now fluent in that language.
However, I live in Holland now and loads of adults, including me, who come to live here have picked up the language pretty fluently, able to work and deal with the kids' schools etc.

May take a long time, and depending how intensively you learn, also people have different "feeling" for language, so it's all relative. Still, it is doable as an adult.

Also easy to be lazy here and not bother at all cos just about everyone speaks English, and wants to (not like France lol).

[overthemill]

tb, thanks for the links - really useful and I will check out the hachette guides at the weekend on our next trip to check stuff out.

i agree like to like although we are hoping for somewhere slightly larger than we are now - I'd so love to be able to walk to a shop!

[tb]

We moved 4 years ago with a 9 year old. She went into the class for her age, no putting her into a class dependent on her level of French as they used to.

Only after she went to college was there any help with French for non-francophones, and that was only as a result of a move by a new college principal.

As for what they study at school there are loads of Hachette guides that parents buy for their kids. Try on amazon.fr and search under CM2 or 6eme. If you're not registered with the site it works just at the uk one does. It will give you an idea of the subjects and the level.

In 6eme, she had english, french, technology, earth science, history+geography combined, art, music, maths and games.

In 5eme she started physics and chemistry as a combined subject and latin. Just about to go into 4eme she has dropped latin - hated the teacher, and is to start spanish.


There is also this site
www.academie-en-ligne.fr/Default.aspx

Regarding healthcare, we have our carte vitales for 70% but our top-up mutuelle costs about ?1600 a year for the 3 of us.

You will find a lot of info on www.totalfrance.com about healthcare, education etc, also www.frenchentree.com.

The main tip I could give for moving is to try and move from like to like ie city to city. We moved from a town of 2,000 to a village of about 1,000 all hamlets included. However, it does have a shop, hairdresser, vet, doctor, dentist, butcher, pharmacy and bar.

[overthemill]

i agree - if you have the motivation it is possible I am sure and at least my dd has some basic French and an ear attuned to it from age 4 (and a step grandma who learned french from scratch at age 50 in order to converse with her husband in his first language!)

[Othersideofthechannel]

I don't contest that there are a lot of people who find the 'French dream' is not what they imagined. However, I know a few people who have started learning another language age 11 and gone on to obtain qualifications a few years later in their second language. Although not strictly bilingual, they haven't been disadvantaged by taking exams in a language that was not their mother tongue. It is not necessarily asking for trouble.

[overthemill]

btw, we live in an extremely rural area now - no shops or schools close by. We may be idealising the french part but not how hard it is to live in the countryside - last winter when it snowed we were snowed in for weeks.

[overthemill]

frenchfancy i asked what was the best stage not age. In English that is quite a different question.
I merely wondered about the stages of French education system, Ithinking of the equivalent here, say GCSE or A level.

It doesn't really matter but your comments were judgemental and lacking in thought. We wouldn't be 'moving' our child - it is she who has begged us to move to France for years.

[frenchfancy]

overthemill.

I'm sorry you found my comments offensive. Wht you asked originally was what was the best age to move your child, my answer is that the best age to move you child is under 8 years old, after that you are asking for trouble.

I have been here 7 years and have seen lots of families come and go, but I have yet to meet one who moved children over the age of 8 who were happy. Language centres in childrens brains stop developing at that age, and then learning the languages becomes the same as an adult, which means becoming truely bilingual is very rare.

I personnally think that moving you and dd to france whilst dh remains in the uk is a recipe for disaster.

If you want more opinions why not try out the completefrance forum. Maybe it will give you a clearer idea as to why I feel like this.

Don't ask the question if you don't like the answer.

[overthemill]

thanks to you both, that's really helpful. Dd s gifted at languages and is extremely keen to make the move but she does want to be a vet tho obviously could study in france! We want to move next summer probably as that works with eldest going to university, to take french. We think dh will work in uk initially and we hope to take over existing gite business in charente which we know very well and love.
Will check out that website!

[RockinSockBunnies]

We have a second home in France and have many friends who have uprooted their family and moved over the water. Sometimes the children were kept down a year (but tended to be teenagers - younger children seemed to adapt very quickly) and all learned the language very quickly. Some friends of ours moved when their DD was 13 - she met a French boyfriend quickly and was totally bilingual within 18 months.

I suppose you'd need to research which area of the country you'd want to go to. Our house is in the middle of rural Normandy and lots of Brits come over looking for the good life, then get disillusioned when they realise how hard it is to live in the countryside, isolated from friends, having to deal in a different language etc. Also, if you can find employment, then great, but if you wanted to start a business etc, then the bureaucracy is a nightmare.

[frakkit]

ASAP is best from an education perspective, both in terms of language acquisition/adapating to the French system and methods and moving at a point when other children move.

Clearly it's not going to be doable for September but the next break is at 14/15 (depending on the birth month) for Lycee which is too late unless you're a fluent French speaker and have a level across the board equivalent to the brevet.

One of my best friends here moved at 12 and said that any later would have been virtually impossible to catch up for her (but she's not particularly gifted at languages). As it was she was advised not take the Bac but to go to a Lycee professionel which would make vet school impossible.

The differences become quite pronounced early on IME. If you are serious then try getting some materials from the CNED to see what she should/would be doing. Bear in mind too that some things are taught and/or expressed differently (e.g. maths) so it's not just the obvious languages/history/civics that are different.

IB might/might not be okay for vet science. Depends on the university and what the school that you're at's timetabling is like - whether bio and chem can be taken at HL etc.

[overthemill]

frenchfancy, i'm at a bit of a loss to understand why you think I haven't thought of these issues myself already? Apart from the fact that many children are moved around from schools for reasons of economic necessity, to move to a 'better' school area, for work reasons (like forces children) and survive pretty much ok - I would not contemplate a move abroad if we hadn't already considered the emotional implications for our entire family.

However what I had asked the helpful MN community was a bit more information about the french schooling system in order to make an informed decision about when a move would be best from an education perspective.

[frenchfancy]

I think moving a child of high school age within the UK is difficult. Ask your Adult friends if they moved when they were young and how it affected them, don't ask them about their chidlren the effects aren't necessarily there yet.

Then take that difficulty and times it by 10. You take a child from an environment they know with friends and activities, and you move them somewhere they no no-one and have to start all over. No add to that the fact that they can't communicate with these strangers, that they have to sit in class rooms all day, from 8 in the morning until 5 at night not understanding what is going on then you may start to have some understanding as to how hard it would be on your dd.

[Bonsoir]

French schools don't do the IB - if you want your DC to do the IB, it will be in an international school and cost lots of money

[overthemill]

wouldnt Int Bac be ok though? I thought that was ok? But anyway thanks. Will look into it to make sure we have full picture.

[Bonsoir]

1999 - so would be entering college in France this September.

Be aware that you cannot go to vet school in England directly from France with the French bac. She would need additional A levels on top.

[overthemill]

ok think i understand. she was born 1999 (so just ending yr 6 here). She is across the board at all subjects and at the moment wants to be a vet! So science and maths important.

it isn't 100% yet - we have much to think about. One dd will be at uni by then and ds will stay in uk term time. but it is a long wanted and talked about desire.

[Bonsoir]

overthemill - which calendar year was your DD born in? Children born in a calendar year make up the intake for a school year (starting in September) in France; so she may or may not be in the same academic year in France as in England.

Basically in France there is much, much less in the way of specialisation than in the UK. College, which is a sort of junior high school, is identical for everyone bar choice of foreign languages and Latin/Greek (which are add-ons). And most bright children do the Bac S (maths and sciences concentration). It is very, very different to the English system which lets children play to their individual strengths. In France, all children are basically assessed on the same topics and ranked.

[overthemill]

our kids are all gifted at langs, like dh and ds has been learning french since 4 but is by no means fluent. My experience of friend who had to move to switzerland was 12 yr old learned quickly with no more than 1 yr prev of french lessons. So i'm opti istic tho totally understand your pov.

[frenchfancy]

I think anyone considering moving their child to a country where the child doesn't speak the language should think VERY HARD about it if the child is over 8.

If you brought a child of 12 to France they would almost definately be kept down a year to try and help catch up with the language. Extra help is available in some areas but by no means all. If the move is to be a temporary one then I would definately consider an international school, where the language barrier wouldn't be an issue.

I don't think I can stress enough how difficult it is to learn a forieng language up to the level required, and a child of 12 has the same language learning capacity of an adult.

We have been here 7 years now and in that time have seen numerous families come and then go again because the language barrier is simply too difficult to break.

To the OP, work may be available to you in city areas, but rural France is quite different. Unless you are completely fluent jobs are very difficult to find, and you would get little state help as a foreigner who hasn't paid into the French system.

I am not being deliberately negative, if you have very young children, and enough money to buy your own house and set up a business then you can have a good life here, but for older children and those with no capital behind them it can be very hard.

[overthemill]

thanks, sorry so busy.
what i'd like an idea of then is the 'best' age to transfer - she is 11 at the moment about to go into yr 7 and we are thinking next year at the earliest. would she be at any disadvantage moving at any particular year point, eg in terms of choosing options?
does that make sense?

[LittleFriendSusan]

Hi overthemill

I lived in France from age 13-18. Assuming the system remains broadly the same as then, any "options" are taken aged 15, after the Brevet des Colleges (which is the closest thing to GCSEs, only taken a year earlier).

Assuming you took the academic rather than vocational route at 15, you could then choose which path to take: literary BAC, scientific BAC, etc. This then determined how many hours of each compulsory subject you took, and any additional subjects (e.g. extra languages). Nowhere near as much room for choice as here though - as an example, 4 hours a week PE was part of the core curriculum at 18 .

The system was very traditional and assessment was continuous throughout the year (but also had final exams) - you needed an average of 10/20 or above to move into the next year. I managed perfectly well, but I was the eldest of 5... my younger siblings struggled a bit, especially in primary (more with the testing, they were just not used to it!).

HTH a bit!

[overthemill]

hi, assume you live in france? So at that age is their any specialisation? Like us here for gcse's?

[Othersideofthechannel]

My children are still in primary, but from what I understand, there isn't much choice about what you study in the first four years of secondary, except perhaps which languages you choose.