Considering moving to France/Geneva for DH's job

[CatmumTTC]

So DH has finally got a job offer for his dream job in Geneva. I've always said if he ever gets it we'll move because it is an adventure etc. but it was always a slim possibility.

Trouble is we are pretty settled in the UK and have been TTC for a while and about to start fertility treatment (which is what I usually use Mumsnet for, hence the username!). We also have a few other things that have tied us down, house and pets, good friends. My job in the UK is pretty good but couldn't do it there, and would not be entitled to a work visa unless I could find a job there that would sponsor me, which is unlikely. I could live there with DH on his visa but not work. We are both UK citizens.

Contract is only for two years and then we'd need to make a decision about moving back to the UK or not, depending on what other job options open up.

I'm considering keeping my job and UK tax residency and visiting DH for part of the year. My job is remote and I could move to my parents which is closer to an airport in the UK that does cheap flights to Geneva whilst making sure I spend at least 183 days out of the year in the UK. Then we could go between these locations and still keep our cat (who is elderly so moving her would be pretty hard). That way we can still continue fertility treatment in the UK. However might get harder to travel if I actually do get pregnant so I'd probably need to make the move eventually.

Alternatively, we both move straight away and I become a lady of leisure in a foreign city whilst TTC, and possibly have a baby over there. But taking a pretty big career break that could limit my options for the future. And we'd be living on one salary (a pretty good salary mind). Geneva is lovely, and close to my outdoorsy hobbies so wouldn't be too much of a hardship! But I know being a new mum can be lonely and my french is pretty poor so that's a concern.

Guess I'm just looking for some thoughts on these ideas. Things I might need to consider. Like paying taxes etc. Anyone moved to the French suburbs just outside Geneva and got any advice? Are we crazy to do this at this stage in our lives?

Personal advice: Do not do it.

Whatever you do decide, do so with the advice of a lawyer (who knows French law) and I would give birth in the UK.

It could work out brilliantly. It could very easily be a disaster.
Yes, you will be lonely and isolated.

Have not personally done it but a mum from school moved to Geneva last year with her husband and 4 kids. She loves it! She’s always been a lady of leisure though so it wasn’t a big lifestyle change for her. She said finding a place to rent was really hard and you have to put together a whole file and submit so much paperwork so that was their biggest hurdle. Her visa was also delayed a few weeks so her husband had to move first with the kids.

ETA: disagree with PP. You always find your tribe (and that’s speaking from experience of moving countries).

Geneva is eye wateringly expensive, even by Swiss standards so do check out living costs. On the other hand, your husband will be earning Swiss wages, but it is definitely worth looking at what standard of living you could expect. When working in Switzerland for many years my husband and I lived over the border in France and crossed into Switzerland each day. Many people do this in the border areas but post Brexit it may no longer be an option for UK citizens....

Firstly, bear in mind that Geneva is hideously expensive. Don't be blinded by an apparently high salary before you've checked how far it will go, and bear in mind you'll be dropping yours. Check local tax rates, I've a feeling they vary canton by canton.

Secondly, Switzerland is in the Schengen area, so unless your DH's work visa covers you or he is an EU citizen, you will be bound by the 90 days in 180 rule in terms of when and for how long you can stay there. If he is an EU citizen then slightly more relaxed rules apply if you are travelling with him or to join him.

Cross post with @Cyclistmumgrandma . 🤣

It's only two years and geneva is SOOOOOO expensive. I think your idea of staying put for now, at least until you are pregnant (assume youre doing ivf so no need to dtd regularly) in case you end up coming back after 2 years with no job or baby. If the contract was longer or you had the DC it would make sense but it's a big sacrifice for you

I’d go like a shot. If you can afford to relax at home and/or have French lessons/get to know that beautiful part of the world, fantastic! Could you work remotely from there? Do check tax position carefully. Perhaps that initially?

I think the first part of your post, describing how to live separately, will just drive a great big wedge into your marriage. You would be living your normal life without your husband, whereas he would be living a new life without you. Even with regular visits, it would never be the same relationship, you would each be on different paths that occasionally cross.

If you move over there with him there will be pros and cons. Yes you can absolutely make it work there and live a life you enjoy. If he doesn't take the job there will also be pros and cons of staying but equally you can make that work and live a life you enjoy.

The questions you need to answer together are whether you are prepared to sacrifice some aspects of your life to enable his dream, and/or whether he is prepared to sacrifice his dream job to enable you to continue the life you are currently enjoying.

I would not consider living in France - taxes are higher and administration will be more complicated. Geneva is extremely international and you will not need to worry about finding people / English speakers to hang out with, especially if you are pregnant or have a baby.
As people say, prices are high here, make sure the job is paying in line with the market here.
i think your plan of staying in the UK is quite sénisible - sounds doable over two years’ or less if you get pregnant (I hope soon).
Maternity care is very good here.
It’s a wonderful place to live, especially if you like sport / outdoors.
good luck with the decision making.

My friend has just moved to Geneva, she's having a real problem finding a flat.

Wow lots of thoughts, thanks all.

@Lamontaine @SeatonCarew As the job is an international post with special visa there is no tax or visa difference for us living in France or Switzerland and visa covers direct family. Many people at this organisation live in the French towns near Geneva Airport apparently. No idea what they are like though, I've only ever been to Geneva proper. Those towns seem really close to the city so I wouldn't have thought it would be that different to living in Geneva itself. Correct me if I'm wrong!

The salary is not bad, 8000€ a month, no tax. Which is more than we earn combined over here. We have a fairly frugal lifestyle with outdoorsy hobbies so biggest expense would likely be skiing!

I'm not worried about moving and making friends generally, I had quite a nomadic twenties and have lived abroad before. But I am not specifically thinking about what this will be like with a potential baby.

@Amalienborg I'm definitely willing to make sacrifices for DH, his career is taking off and it's exciting. It's just starting to sink in that my life will have to change a lot, and I'll be financially dependent on him. Which is a big change in relationship dynamic.

Should have also said I'm up for a promotion so both of our careers are taking off. Just not in the same locations! Working abroad remotely is not an option for my current role, needs to be UK based remote.

Not into IVF yet @JanewaysBun, but that might end up where we go if ovulation medication doesn't work. But yes every month DH will need to be near me for a certain window.

How old are you OP?
Personally if I really wanted a baby and struggled to conceive I wouldn't be stopping fertility treatment to move abroad and hope I suddenly got pregnant.
So that means you'd have to live apart, the question then becomes are you happy to undergo fertility treatment alone, without your partner's support? IVF can take a toll on the body. And if you move over after getting pregnant what maternity care would you be entitled to on that visa, at what price?
I wouldn't worry about a career break in that scenario. Plenty of women take 2+ years out to care for children. 2 years alone is very short.

That aside, Switzerland is one of the more difficult places to get permanent residency in. You have to be living there for 10 years if not an EU citizen (5 is the norm in most other EU countries and even in the UK). There is a fast-track if you can prove that you have 'integrated' successfully, so 5 years but you need to prove your language skills (and some other criteria).

Also... do you want to sacrifice your career for his? What would happen if you had kids and you wanted to leave DH how would you be able to support them?

I think the positives are quite obvious ('adventure!', better QoL than the UK and possibility to settle abroad, etc ) so I don't need to point them out.. just the factors you need to consider!

Are you a French-speaker ? While geneva itself is very multi-cultural (and accordingly eye-wateringly expensive), the more reasonable east-French towns wouldn't be great. Day-to-day life could be tough if you don't have the language

While it’s a big and serious decision to give up your career, if you are trying for a baby, and you are successful, then you will have to make adjustments and changes, pretty soon anyway op eg maternity leave, nursery hours, school run, illness cover.

I think IVF provision and maternity services are preferable in Switzerland to UK atm if you have good health insurance. And if you have travelled before and are used to living in different countries then I would definitely follow your dh abroad op.

You can always re-think in two years time, and make a commitment to stay in touch with contacts and training opportunities in your current line of work meanwhile, while you are abroad. You are both lucky to have an opportunity come up like this and personally I would make the most of it.

A compromise would be to stall on the decision until you have had your promotion and then make your move either way.

Best of luck.

BTW, for outdoorsy hiking/skiiing types, the region is a dream !!

Good options, good luck!🤞

I would go in a flash. It'll never be easier than now. Presumably his dick works in both countries.

Insurance usually doesn't cover IVF if a need for it is already known - there's a waiting period before you can start. OP might earn enough to pay for it over there as well as the UK though. It's not particularly cheap privately here.

8k€ net sounds a lot but will not go far in Geneva. Does the role offer any other advantages? Accommodation is probably around half of that and then there’s health insurance and living expenses to cover.

France would be a better option for cost, yes given you’re not paying tax. It’s easy enough to get in to Geneva from France. Living experiences are different though. The mentality is different and there would definitely be less of an international community. But if your DH has colleagues there then that would be a start.
The region is fantastic and quality of life great and as people say, 2 years is not much time.
good luck with the ttc!

@macedoniann I'm 33, almost 34 so don't really want to delay it any longer. We want more than one ideally so do need to get cracking. And you're right about other career decisions, I guess if I go out there I'll be somewhat committing to being the primary parent, which was not our original plan. We had previously talked about both going part time and sharing responsibilities - that won't be an option if he goes for this job.

We can afford private IVF and were planning to do that privately in the UK thanks to my very generous dad. I will look into the cost of doing this abroad though as that might be an option if prices are similar.

I think I am leaning towards going out with him. We've not really been apart from each other for 6 years so think I would struggle staying behind and I don't care about my job enough to risk ruining my marriage. TTC and fertility treatment is the main inconvenience of this situation.

I know it is hard to believe but that salary won't go half as far as you think. I did stents in Europe over the years and living costs are very high. About 30% more expensive than London, at least.

I would also investigation the cost and access to IVF while on a visa.

Keep your job, stay in the UK and continue TTC. Go there for your maternity leave. It is close enough for frequent visits between now and when the baby comes.

@roses2 I don't know how that would work with taxes on maternity. Wouldn't I still need to reside in the UK to qualify?

@Marblessolveeverything I know it's going to be much more expensive than what we're used to in northern England. But we could look at renting out our UK home for extra income and we have a good amount in savings. So for two years I'm not too concerned about the financial side of it. Trying to focus on what an adventure it will be!

@Lamontaine the apartments I've been looking at are around 2.5k€. I can see it would be easy to spend more but for us I think we'd just go for something cheap and cheerful. The job does have lots of annual leave but that's the only additional benefit.

He’s got a role at a UN organisation? There will be health insurance, pension to come out of the salary. Take home might be more like 7000 a month.
Honestly you will need to earn something too to have a high standard of living.

(I have lived in Geneva for 8 years).

It would be usual for any expat contract not to cover these. Everything is expensive though and there can be snobbery within expat community. You need health insurance which covers potential pregnancy, not all do. Do you speak French?