Car dealership changed company name and are now saying not liable.

[MrsKoala]

We bought a car for £2900 in June. On the way home from the dealership the cars break light was flashing and bleeping madly - it was evident there was a big problem. DH pulled over and called them from the side of the road and they were apologetic and said to take it into a local (the dealership was other side of London and we live in Kent) garage and then send them the invoice - they were sure it was just something small.

Anyway, the garage said it was a massive computer fault and would need a very expensive new part which cost about £2k and that the car wasn't worth repairing.

We contacted the dealership and they shouted abuse at me, then hung up and never answered any more of our calls.

We contacted trading standards/citizens advice and they advised us to send a series of letters giving 28 days notice that we would start legal proceedings. In all 4 letters were advised to be sent. None were acknowledged and were returned (recorded deliveries).

We proceeded with a court claim after advice from trading standards that we could show that we had done all in our power to resolve this.

We now have had a letter from the dealership acknowledging our claim but saying they have added LTD to their company name and became incorporated subsequent to our purchase (on the day after our first letter was received) and therefore 'have nothing whatsoever to do with the claim'.

Is this right? Can they do this? I am so cross that the advice we had has actually helped them. :(

[LotusLight]

The receipt sounds like the only document plus the ad.
So look at what the autotrader ad. said and the name on the receipt - it might be Autotrader ad said AC Cars and the receipt not that name at all but instead Mr John Smith and then we are confused. If the ad was AC Cars and the receipt has John Smith's signature and AC Cars we can probably assume the person you bought from is Mr John Smith trading as AC Cars.


C means there is a right in law to force Autotrader to tell you the name of who placed the ad - their business name etc. The problem is that is probably not going to get you too far as I bet the man who placed the ad did not make it clear anywhere including on autotrader and on the receipt who sold you the car deliberately so you could not easily sue him after. Some people deliberately set up a business like this and avoid debts and they are very hard to track down.

So can you read the individual's name on the receipt and is it similar to what is show ion the autotrader ad as the seller?

I think you won a judgment against AC Cars (and that was Mr Smith trading as AC Cars) so if he does not pay in 14 days then you can recover any of his assets, his car, his house etc if he has any assets (plenty of people have none or all in the wife's name) IF you can persuade a bailiff to recover against him. You would be going to them saying here is a judgment against AC Cars but in fact that name is in effect a lie and I should have sued as John Smith trading as AC Cars. Bailiffs are going to say how are we to know AC Cars was Mr John Smith a sole trader? So any evidence of that will help. There is no register of businesses who are sole traders.

[MrsKoala]

Thanks, that makes sense. We don't have the auto trader advert. We just read it and called them and that was it. We never thought to screen shot it or save it.

The name on the invoice/receipt is 'fig leaves autos' on the header and then signed 'seller Mick McTwatty'. That and the address that dh went to to pick up the car is all we have to go on.

[MrsKoala]

I have to say we bought the car in an extremely stressful situation. We were desperate and it clouded our judgement. We aren't usually this stupid.

I had been taken to hospital at 32 wks pregnant with heavy bleeding and was kept in for 6 weeks till ds2 was born and mil was diagnosed with terminal cancer. We had no car so dh could not come to the hospital to see me or go to visit his mum. We just bought the first thing we saw. It made a very difficult time much much worse and has continued to be an albatross around our necks. I just want it gone. Every time I look at it I want to cry. It symbolises everything that was so awful about the last year.

[TracyBarlow]

Life is too short for this MrsKoala. I'd just get rid of the car and try to forget about the whole thing. I think for the sake of your own mental health you just need to draw a line. There's no shame in that.

The scammers will get caught in the end and even if they don't, they'll spend their lives running from people they owe money to.

[LotusLight]

I suspect then that your sale was with
Mr Mick McTwatty trading as fig leaves autos and that is what I would have put on the claim form with the address. I would then check on 192.com if there is on the electoral roll McT living at that address and try a google search and also search at companies house on the new company to see if mcT is a director of the new company as then the companies house filings will give his address too in the new company accounts.

I am not against TB's advice. You can see by this thread just how much time lawyers have to spend on these things which makes it not cost effective to sue for small sums and even without lawyers unless it is a company likely to stay around and well known it can be hard even if you sue without lawyers.
I do think in life it can be better to write things off than fight if the emotional energy of the fight is not worth it.

I think you sued in the trading name which could make it hard to enforce that judgment. I would certainly recommend your sending the judgment to that address that you have with a letter by special delivery addressed to Mr Mc Twatty trading as Fig Leaves Autos along the lines of Dear Sir, as you are no doubt aware judgment was obtained against you by the court - copy enclosed along with our original receipt which shows clearly that you are a sole trader personally liable for this debt. Unless the sum due is paid to me by [xxxx] then bailiffs will attend at your premises and/or seize your car and other possessions in payment of this sum. In addition you will be due for enforcement charges. I enclose a stamped addressed envelope for your cheque of £xxxxx which should be made payable to.

I reserve the right to apply for your personal bankruptcy if you fail to pay the sum which is due."

See how that goes. It is just a letter and will just cost you a trip to the post office and photocopier. Keep a copy.

[MrsKoala]

Thank you, I will send it, but as they don't open any of our letters I doubt it would do any good.

I disagree with C about the staff at the court giving advice. I don't think it's advice to say 'you can't sue a non legal entity, you have to have a persons name'. Surely it's just a fact. A fact that would save vulnerable people a lot of grief and money.

There is no record of 'McTwatty' anywhere. I have tried all of those things. The address we have is just an underground parking garage in Central London.

[LotusLight]

Most people who file on line don't speak to court staff - they are just using a machine and the machine accepts whatever you type in eg President of the Moon would be accepted.

There are available free on line notes from the court with the claim form you can download which do describe the importance of suing the right human person or limited company but I agree it is hugely misunderstood in practice. Every week of the year a client gets this wrong in my own practice and they put a trading name on a contract like yesterday or a dispute arises and we cannot actually work out whom we sue as the original deal was not clear.

it sounds like Mr Twatty is deliberately hiding. You could try posting by special delivery and ordinary post and also posting or emailing to the new business too all sending them the same letter but I agree if people want to evade paying they often manage it. I did a contract last week and we checked the personal guarantor had a house etc so that if the company does not pay we have that person to sue as well. Even then people disappear abroad. it is really unfair and court fees have just shot up - it's a £10,000 court fee now even if you don't use a lawyer at all - for a £200,000 claim. that is massive and as the other person might fight off the claim or disappear and not pay you might never see a penny back of it.

If there were enough money in your case you might hire an investigator or hang around outside the new company's premises and see if you can track the man down but it's sounding less and less likely you will recover from him.

I did advise someone about 2 years ago who had bought an investigator's service as had a lot of other women who did exactly what you describe - he took money in advance but not by credit card (so no way to get it back under s75 consumer credit law) and took it by bank transfer. Then he didn't provide the service. Then he moved all his business into a limited company or put a first company into liquidation and started again. There are a lot of tricksters about.

The bottom line in law is that it sounds like this man owes you the money personally so if he can be tracked down that's the route. I am not happy with most bailiffs either - I've had clients use them, pay a lot of money and still not get anything although we did once seize someone's plane and that certainly results in the money being paid immediately in cash as he wanted the plane back.

[MrsKoala]

Thanks. I understand but it feels like it is too easy for these cunts to get away with it.

I thought the bailiffs recovered their money from the person they seized goods from. Do you have to pay them up front?

[Collaborate]

There is a fee you pay at the start. This is the application fee.The rest of their fees are meant to be paid out of what they recover.
I wouldn't bother at the moment though. What's the point when you've only got judgment against a fictitious entity?

[MrsKoala]

I'm not planning to. Just curious.

[StupidBloodyKindle]

I know it is another £100, but a private investigator might be able to invest the time for you to get the name's details (unless it was a fictitious name)
What comes up when you do google/192...am amazed the name(s) are not coming up on scambusters or similar.
Am for you, truly am.

[MrsKoala]

When I google the name nothing comes up anywhere. I'm not even sure it's a real name.