So WTF will happen if I take the children out of the jurisdiction without EXTOAD's consent?

[Karenthetoadslayer]

We are atm trying very hard to negotiate a settlement with exP. He has been very obstructive so far and purposely refused to deal with matters, such as the sale of the family home until the summer holidays, so we cannot go away. He suddenly became very active on 21st July. He has also forbidden us to go and see our family in mainland Europe. It would be great if the children could at least visit their grandparents while I am dealing with matters, as opposed to having to sit at home. I have signed undertakings to be available for the sale of the house, so I am stuck here, because we are in occupation, but the children should not have to be.

So what would happen if I chose to ignore him and put the kids on a plane so they can have a great time on the beach with their grandparents who have a seaside home? Would I get arrested?

[justiceofthePeas]

looks like we won't be going abroad on holiday again for a while then.
I am de facto rp but I don't have a child arrangements order or whatever it is called because we were never married so did not legally separate and we have agreed outside the court where they will live- which is what you are ideally supposed to do according to .gov.uk. residence orders are only for where you cannot agree.

He is not interested in having them live with him but may just be spiteful enough to refuse to sign anything. And I just don't want him have any degree of control over my life again.

[worridmum]

I dont know but I also know alot of mother that dont let their EXs take children on holiday outside of the country because "they will miss them to much" but happy for in UK holidays but get annoyed because the EX returns the favour be refusing them consent and they are in the wrong

But I agree Karen why would anyone deny their children the benifets of a holiday and benifets seeing wider family members and building realonships with them.

On the emigraition side do be prepared to atleast potentially having to bear the majority of the costs asocitated with access ie you having to pay for all flights back to home nation to allow contact to be maintained and in some cases you might have to go months without seeing your children as my friends EX gets the entire summer holidays and every other christmas / easter holiday and she has to fund this as it was her moving to the other side of the world. (I am not sure about now days but in the past the person wanting to emigrate had to bear the majority of the costs so might of changed so please dont hold me to this advice)

[EarthWindFire]

Emigration is a completely different topic which is also on the cards, but we would of course apply for that too

Be prepared for that taking a long time and a long road, especially if your ex opposes it.

[Letthemtalk]

How would border control verify the signature on a letter? What's to stop anyone just printing off a copy, signing it themselves and presenting that?

[Karenthetoadslayer]

Thank you, worridmum ATM there is no contact. Initially he was not interested and the children also refuse to see him. We have suggested supervised contact, but he is not interested in that either.

Emigration was going to be a longer term project, but things are getting increasingly tricky, as he wants to sell the family home, understandably as he has to buy a house for himself too, but we really have to fight our corner to get halfway decent accommodation and the houses he suggested are entirely unacceptable. Plus my job prospects are rather dim where we are and I cannot afford to retrain if he is not paying enough CM (none ATM). Apart from that, he terrorises us in every way he can possibly think of, but most incidents are hard to prove, as they take place at night and he has come and gone when the police arrives.

On the other hand, letting us emigrate may be the cheaper option for him, so he can choose between money or spite.

[slithytove]

How do they know you are separated?

I take DS away just us all the time, I mean like 7 times a year.

Never thought I might need permission. DH and I are not separated.

[EveDallasRetd]

I know that anecdote doesn't = data, but I too wonder how the boarder agency would know that a signed letter isn't actually a real signed letter (IYSWIM).

A couple of years ago DSD and her friend (no relation) came as unaccompanied minors to visit us in Cyprus. We had no letter of consent from DSDs mum, nor from her friends mum. They weren't even asked about it. They were dropped off and checked in as normal by DSDs mum, and Cyprus Airways phoned us in Cyprus to say they were on the plane once they had boarded though, maybe that was the difference.

When we sent them back no-one seemed the least bit fussed.

[DrankSangriaInThePark]

That's like me, slithy.

Am sometimes stopped, sometimes not. As I said, in July, I was stopped at each stage and asked not for the consent letter, but for proof of my relationship with dd.

HQ have added a bit to their advice pages (although when I looked it seemed to be inferring it was only necessary if you had different surnames to the child, which is not the case)

[DrankSangriaInThePark]

Eve- they don't, at first glance. Mine is often forged, as I am terribly last minute and sometimes dp forgets to sign it. But I also carry copies of his passport, dd's birth certificate and our "status of family^ Italian document explaining who we all are and our relationship to each other. And obviously, if they wanted to call him up and ask if he has given permission he would say yes.

I guess the problems would start if they didn't think a situation was genuine and held you back while they made further enquiries.

I think unaccompanied minors have already filled in so many forms from their parents that they don't need further checking tbh. (not sure though)

[EveDallasRetd]

Ahh yes, there was a long form, although it only had to be signed by the person paying (DH). Didn't ask him if he had PR etc, but he did have to send a copy of his passport. Maybe that was it.

[PittTheYounger]

lol at ingenuous

[slithytove]

Wow this is something I didn't know. So even though we are married all with the same surname, I should really take a consent letter and copies of BC?

[financialwizard]

I am so glad I have got a residency order in place, saves so much stress. I have been stopped many times when returning to England but never leaving. I find it very strange.

[DrankSangriaInThePark]

Why would that be Pitt?

[micah]

What happens if one partner is deceased though? Are you going to need a death certificate? What happens if you don't have it- if you were separated at maybe his next of kin (parents, new spouse) has it?

Or what if they've simply disappeared and gone nc? No proof of permission and no death cert.

Dh's ex regularly takes their two out the country with her new husband, so both adults have a different surname to the kids. They've never even asked permission, let alone written consent. They only let us know if it affects contact weekends, and then last minute.

What about school trips and sports clubs? Do they need signed permission off all parents? Dh has never had to give permission for sd's trips abroad with the school.

[EarthWindFire]

Wow this is something I didn't know. So even though we are married all with the same surname, I should really take a consent letter and copies of BC?

Yep. My sister was stopped with her DC even though she was with her DH all because her surname is different to the DC. He had gone through just before them.

[DrankSangriaInThePark]

Micah- effectively, yes they do. In all the cases you mention.

It's just that at the moment it's not an actual law but a guideline. I don't know if border control have a set number of lone-parents-travelling that they have to ask every shift, or what the criteria is.

Oddly I am far more often stopped coming into the UK, than going out. (I suppose because coming in, in (IIRC) almost all airports, you go up to the desk and the BA officer looks at your docs, whereas going out, the person at check-in looks, and then nobody else until the gate.

I brought a group of teenagers to the UK in July from Italy, and although I had consent letters from all of their parents, the only one they asked me about was my own daughter- go figure the logic!

[DrankSangriaInThePark]

Meant to say- yes, it's not just lone parents, it's anyone travelling with minors who aren't their own children IYSWIM?

[micah]

So if your partner dies or goes missing you could be stopped from travelling? What if he dies abroad, how would you get home if some jobs worth decides you need a consent letter?

I understand the reasoning behind it, obviously. But it seems like a lot of paperwork and more money for the legal profession. Not sure how else it could be done though?

[slithytove]

earth
We all have the same name, does that make a difference?

I would also be interested to know what happens in the case of being widowed. Surely one doesn't have to take death certificates?

[missmeldrew]

I rang the airport police when my ex took our DS1 out of the country - they wouldnt do anything!

What would happen if you took them, you were stopped and you had no idea where the father was to get permission? Just say you havent seen him for X amount of years?

[Karenthetoadslayer]

You see, ladies, this is why I don't get this thing that unmarried mothers accept that their DCs have the father's name. Why?

[Sarahplane]

I've never been asked but it's been a few years since we've been abroad. Thinking of going next year. Dd's father doesn't have parental rights as we were not married and she has mine and dh's surname now. Am I likely to have problems if we go on a family package holiday? Do I need to try and track down my ex to get permission or go to court?

[Letthemtalk]

No you're not likely to have any problems. Parents travel independently with their children all the time, I have never heard of needing a letter from the other parent apart from on Mon.

[prh47bridge]

As posts on here show, experience varies. Some countries are much hotter than others at turning people away if they are not happy that the correct consent is in place.

Sarahplane - I'm assuming the father is not named on the birth certificate since you say he doesn't have PR. As your daughter shares her surname with you and your husband it is unlikely you would have any problems. You certainly don't need to get consent from your ex or a court order.