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Original poster

Legal protection for unmarried SAHMs

260 replies

lilyaldrin · 01/12/2013 22:03

Basically, what do I need to do to confer the same financial/legal protection as marriage would?

We have joint children and although we don't currently own property together, we hope to in the next few years.

First thing I'm tackling is wills leaving everything to each other. What next?

OP posts:
Original poster
lilyaldrin · 01/12/2013 23:52

He doesn't have a pension - I do and he is named as a beneficiary.

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 01/12/2013 23:53

lPOA used health,social care when individual no longer has capacity nominates you to manage.Finances and Health,social care
You do need it recorded properly

Original poster
lilyaldrin · 01/12/2013 23:56

OK, so things I can do:
Wills
Medical NOK
LPoA
Joint tenants if we buy property

Things I can't do anything about:
Widows benefits

OP posts:
eightandthreequarters · 02/12/2013 00:01

So what does he do about a pension if you two split up and you name someone else as beneficiary?

I'd not thought much about the question in your OP before... but actually there really is nothing you can do that would confer the same benefits as being married, is there? It's a good question.

friday16 · 02/12/2013 00:05

OK, so things I can do:
Wills

You can do your own will.

You can't do your partner's.

There is no way to be confident that your partner's will doesn't leave his entire estate, including his pension, to his mistress you don't know about, or to the dogs' home, and if that happens then in England and Wales there is precious little you can do about it.

Original poster
lilyaldrin · 02/12/2013 00:07

I can't prevent him altering his will, but I do know what is in it initially.

OP posts:
eightandthreequarters · 02/12/2013 00:08

He can sign a mirror will with you, and then make another will that contradicts the first. You could go to court over it, of course... but that would be expensive and probably futile. I think in terms of concrete legal protection of the sort that marriage would afford... the will gets you nowhere.

Hopefully a solicitor will have a better answer for that!

Original poster
lilyaldrin · 02/12/2013 00:10

Surely even if you are married you are free to alter your own will?

OP posts:
eightandthreequarters · 02/12/2013 00:10

In terms of legal/financial protection in the long term... what good does it do you to know what's in it initially?

I want there to be a better answer to your question, so I hope you find one.

Squiffyagain · 02/12/2013 00:11

As an aside, If the reason why you are avoiding marriage is because one of you is already married to someone else and that marriage cannot be dissolved, or because one of you has difficulty proving residency or similar, then I imagine the position will be far more complicated than has already been pointed out.

eightandthreequarters · 02/12/2013 00:19

Because if you are married, he cannot make a will that gives away what is yours by right of marriage. Or he can make it, but it won't hold up.

ItsNotATest · 02/12/2013 00:21

Your next of kin cannot make decisions or consent to medical treatment for you, married or not. That is a common misunderstanding which has cropped up several times in this thread.

Original poster
lilyaldrin · 02/12/2013 00:23

Who can consent to medical treatment/make decisions if you are incapacitated?

OP posts:
ItsNotATest · 02/12/2013 00:26

Only someone you have given a health and welfare lasting power of attorney to.

scottishmummy · 02/12/2013 00:26

If you've nominated your dp as medical nok, and LPOA then he will be consulted
Most hospitals get the nuances of cohabitation and would seek to approach a partner

Get LPOA recorded,same too nok

Original poster
lilyaldrin · 02/12/2013 00:30

So if we were married and one partner needed medical treatment but couldn't consent - who would?

OP posts:
Nyssalina · 02/12/2013 00:33

Out of interest OP, being as marriage is certainly an excellent way to solve a lot of these issues, why is it absolutely off the cards? If you (as a couple) consider it a waste of time and don't believe in it, then why not just do the deed on the quiet and benefit from the protection it affords? Is it that you personally do believe in marriage and would like for your DP to propose in the future and so have the big 'do'? If that's the case, I can see why you wouldn't want to go through an official but unromantic ceremony...
Regarding whether or not a partner can cut you out of his will whether you are married or not, there's an interesting article here.
Essentially from what I understand, whether or not you're married, he can write you out of his will, but as either a 'cohabiting partner' or wife you have the same right to contest it and receive a greater portion of inheritance if the amount he leaves is not considered to be 'reasonable financial provision'.

ItsNotATest · 02/12/2013 00:39

No-one would consent, doctors would act in the best interests of the patient. They would discuss with family/spouse/partner to try to gain an understanding of what the patient's views are likely to be, but none of those people can either make the decision or consent.

Allowing people to consent for medical treatment for someone else would be open to all sorts of potential abuse.

friday16 · 02/12/2013 00:44

So if we were married and one partner needed medical treatment but couldn't consent - who would?

Doctors acting in their perception of the patients' best interests.

Usually this is what you'd have agreed to anyway (leaving aside issues like JWs and blood transfusions).

However, the fun can start when it involves DNR notices or their absence.

As others have pointed out, spouses don't have "rights" by virtue of marriage, but there's a lot of caselaw, custom and practice which says that there's a very, very wide window in which they'll accept a spouse's view. So the range of options a spouse can consent to, or not, on their spouse's behalf is going to be very wide.

It's not as wide as the range they'll accept when the patient themselves is giving or withholding consent (which requires sectioning to overturn), but I suspect that cases where a spouse's opinion is overridden are few and far between and mostly involve DNR.

I would further suspect that as you go down some hierarchy of parents, children, unmarried partners, etc (in some order) the range of options doctors will accept from you before they mutter about going to court is progressively narrower.

AnAdventureInCakeAndWine · 02/12/2013 00:46

Things you can't do anything about:
Widows benefits
Inheritance tax (less of an issue if you are joint tenants, though)
Rights over partner's pension (not currently an issue for you but if you're going to SAH while he WOH it could become one)

I'm not sure what happens with unmarried couples in regard to the family home if the relationship breaks down. If you're married then on divorce there can if appropriate be an order that the residential parent can continue to live in the family home with children until children are all adults; don't know if that's an option on breakdown of an unmarried relationship but I suspect not (you'd need to check with a solicitor).

ItsNotATest · 02/12/2013 00:52

So the range of options a spouse can consent to, or not, on their spouse's behalf is going to be very wide.

The range is non-existent. A spouse cannot consent unless they have a LPOA.

Sunnysummer · 02/12/2013 00:53

My biggest concern would be that whatever reason that marriage is 'off the table' is what will cause problems in the end. If it's because one of you has had a previous marriage with kids etc and is gunshy, then if anything happens to one of you then the outcome could be very complex due to the multiple claims. This is even more true if one of you is still legally married to someone else.

Or if it is because he refuses even to secretly sign a piece of paper at a registry office for 50 quid to give you protection, then I would be very concerned about his level of commitment and whether he would actually support you properly if you split, let alone with wills.

Abother boring but practical point - if he is earning enough that you are able to stay at home for even a little while, why does he not have a pension? If you stay together, this is likely to be important much sooner than wills or powers of attorney. When he does get his pension, you also need to check whether you benefit from it without marriage.

Definitely get to a solicitor.

holidaysarenice · 02/12/2013 00:57

I'm not sure how you deal with that for your children (ie, mother dies, father and mother's parents disagree about medical treatment for child)

The medical profession will pay no heed to the grandparents. It goes to the father.

If the father cannot prove he is the father ie not on birth certificate. He will have to go to court. In the mean time non important decisions will not be made. A life saving op would be decided 'in the childs best interests by medics' any controversial treatment, the medical team get a judge to decide.

At no time can the grandparents make the decision.

holidaysarenice · 02/12/2013 01:01

Where medicine is concerned the best way to think is that
'no adult can consent for another adult.'

Ultimately you can make a lpoa deed giving someone else the ability to make a decision, not to make their decision - doctors must consider that they are making a decision that respects your thoughts/choices and judgements on it would be.

friday16 · 02/12/2013 01:49

A spouse cannot consent unless they have a LPOA.

In every geriatric clinic in every hospital in the country, practice says you are wrong. Health LPoAs have only existed for about ten years. Are you seriously saying that in every case in which someone who does not have one made out in their spouses' favour and registered (a minuscule proportion of the population) doctors are paying little heed to the spouses' wishes over DNR, and are either working without consent or via the court of protection?