Am I crazy to be considering 4th??

[Newbie887]

We have three close together (8, 6 & nearly 5). I am late on my period and think I may be pregnant. Just waiting until the weekend when partner is back to do a pregnancy test together. In the meantime I am wondering what on Earth we do if it is positive.

On one hand, we have always wanted four. However our first and third are hard work (I think likely adhd / mild autism but no diagnosis). Middle child is very easygoing and I could def handle another like her but obviously it’s a gamble…we could afford another and have a car and house that would fit them. There would be a 5 year age gap between youngest and baby so I would have more breathing space if we were to go ahead and have the 4th than I did with the first three. 3 @ 4 yrs and under during lockdown nearly finished me, but I’m trying to separate that experience with what an experience with a 4th at this point in my life might actually be like.

My biggest concern is lack of time with each child. I feel we are stretched as we are, with readin, homework (which tbh we never do), clubs and sports. Remembering everything for school. That type of stuff. I don’t want to get swept away with the excitement of a new baby, only to discover a few years down the line that I don’t feel I have enough time one on one with each child. Can anyone comment on their experience with this?

Am also not sure I could cope with the years of sleepless nights again. We’ve just (in the last 6 months) got all ours sleeping through regularly. It’s a game changer. I feel like a whole person again, and was looking forward to getting back to work part time. A new baby would reset us again.

Also worried about the toll on my body. I will be 40 when giving birth. It’s entirely possible, but I already have a bad back and other mild health issues that will likely worsen. I can be strict with diet and strength training, yoga etc to try and counterbalance that though.

I guess the problem is my brain says it’s not sensible and will add much more workload. But my heart wants to have the 4th. And I wonder if I terminate will that leave a hole in the family that would feel awful? Would I always wonder who that child would have been.

Parents of 3 who have gone for the 4th, and those with 3 who didn’t, can you give me your views please?

[Obeast]

'lack of time with each child. I feel we are stretched as we are'
That's bad, and you want to reduce their time even more?
Are you financially independent/own your own home? Being unemployed and unmarried is incredibly vulnerable.

[Birmingbacon]

The bit that sticks out to me in your post is this

"My biggest concern is lack of time with each child. I feel we are stretched as we are, with readin, homework (which tbh we never do), clubs and sports. Remembering everything for school. That type of stuff. I don’t want to get swept away with the excitement of a new baby, only to discover a few years down the line that I don’t feel I have enough time one on one with each child. Can anyone comment on their experience with this?"

My children are now 12, 10 and 8. When they were a little younger I used to think about a 4th and if my husband had been on board with it we'd have gone for it. But truly, it would have been a mistake. They take up so much time now. They have social lives to facilitate, clubs, homework, the eldest has big projects to do at school that I help her with. Just the time to have 1-1 chats about their day and evrything. Children and teenagers are time consuming and I think you'd find your self spread really thin. Your eldest would be at senior school when you had a pre-schooler. Those are just such different demands. You'd never agree on a family movie. Never want to go to the same theme park rides, or play the same board games etc. If I were you i'd leave it as 3.

[GoodnightAdeline]

I wouldn’t, I’ve noticed ND seems to get more pronounced in further siblings, so unless you’re open to a child with higher levels of need than your youngest I would leave it there.

[cwanne]

We have 4. There's a 5 year gap to the youngest. It can be crazy at times, but we don't regret it at all. I was 38 when I had our youngest DS.

[Newbie887]

@Obeast

'lack of time with each child. I feel we are stretched as we are'
That's bad, and you want to reduce their time even more?
Are you financially independent/own your own home? Being unemployed and unmarried is incredibly vulnerable.

Currently, each child does get enough time. We don’t do screen time during the week and this allows for 1:1 time and clubs etc. However, I do feel this is at my limit. I was wondering if parents with four shift their lifestyle / expectations so that it’s more geared towards activities as a whole family. Or more independent play / activities rather than lots of ferrying to clubs and play dates.

and yes, I’m unmarried and a sahm at the moment. However I own my own house from before having children and I don’t have any trust issues with my partner

[Newbie887]

@Birmingbacon

The bit that sticks out to me in your post is this

"My biggest concern is lack of time with each child. I feel we are stretched as we are, with readin, homework (which tbh we never do), clubs and sports. Remembering everything for school. That type of stuff. I don’t want to get swept away with the excitement of a new baby, only to discover a few years down the line that I don’t feel I have enough time one on one with each child. Can anyone comment on their experience with this?"

My children are now 12, 10 and 8. When they were a little younger I used to think about a 4th and if my husband had been on board with it we'd have gone for it. But truly, it would have been a mistake. They take up so much time now. They have social lives to facilitate, clubs, homework, the eldest has big projects to do at school that I help her with. Just the time to have 1-1 chats about their day and evrything. Children and teenagers are time consuming and I think you'd find your self spread really thin. Your eldest would be at senior school when you had a pre-schooler. Those are just such different demands. You'd never agree on a family movie. Never want to go to the same theme park rides, or play the same board games etc. If I were you i'd leave it as 3.

Thank you for your view. I can definately see your point. We have just got to a place where we can do family days out together like hiking, kayaking, skiing…all this would pretty much go out of the window. And like you say with movie night etc. I had a cousin who is 6 years younger than me and she feels like a whole other age to me, we didn’t play together I was always mothering her. So I wonder if the youngest with a 5 - 9 yr age difference between the siblings would be, whether they would be left out / behind as the others were so much older

[GoodnightAdeline]

@Newbie887

Currently, each child does get enough time. We don’t do screen time during the week and this allows for 1:1 time and clubs etc. However, I do feel this is at my limit. I was wondering if parents with four shift their lifestyle / expectations so that it’s more geared towards activities as a whole family. Or more independent play / activities rather than lots of ferrying to clubs and play dates.

and yes, I’m unmarried and a sahm at the moment. However I own my own house from before having children and I don’t have any trust issues with my partner

This made me cringe a little. What would you do if he had an affair tomorrow? How long have you been out of work? Are you qualified to do anything that would earn enough to support 4 kids?

[Newbie887]

@GoodnightAdeline

I wouldn’t, I’ve noticed ND seems to get more pronounced in further siblings, so unless you’re open to a child with higher levels of need than your youngest I would leave it there.

This is an interesting point which I’m now going to research, thank you

[cwanne]

Activities can be tricky. I have finally managed to get everyone in swimming classes on Sunday morning. We all go together and the others read/ hang out until it's their turn to swim.

[fluffycatkins]

I'm guessing you are not in the UK if skiing is one of your regular activities.

I'm the eldest of five and time and money were both in limited supplies growing up.
That said I enjoyed having siblings and am close to them now.

As a sibling group none of us have had more than two dc ourselves though.

You do need to think through how you would manage if your latest dc had more significant needs.

[Newbie887]

@GoodnightAdeline

This made me cringe a little. What would you do if he had an affair tomorrow? How long have you been out of work? Are you qualified to do anything that would earn enough to support 4 kids?

Can we stick to the original questions I asked rather than veering down a side road of imaginary relationship problems. I trust my partner. I have had three kids with him. Marrying him does not add any security these days, this isn’t the 1950s. Theoretically if he had an affair I would leave him and he can pay child allowance just like I would if we were married. And yes, I can go back to work and earn enough to support myself and kids. I’m a sahm mother now out of choice and because having three kids and both of us also having full time jobs when we are financially ok on one salary is too much stress. We would prefer to have less family income and a less stressful family
life that has flexibility for travel. That does not make me unemployable if I did decide to go back to work.

[RhubarbGingerJam]

Oddly enough youngest of my siblings only one not ND.

I would have said same of my kids till recently youngest not affect at all now late secondary think possibly are - though so much easier as a child that older two.

I personally would not want that age gap or one at 40 - but that's me and DH - and I think time and money worried are valid concerns.

We stopped at three -though poor midwife care played a role there - but by time youngest was 6-7 were really pleased we had - as time and money had got so stretched.

[Zephyry]

Nothing you have said makes it sound like a good idea! Even if the 4th was like your middle, they are still a whole new person that might have completely different emotional needs as they get older. I don't think you should view children as simply - are they straightforward to look after. Will being a bit side lined be enough for that child? I just can't comprehend this way of looking at it really

[Zephyry]

And I speak as a 4th child myself!

[GoodnightAdeline]

@Newbie887

Can we stick to the original questions I asked rather than veering down a side road of imaginary relationship problems. I trust my partner. I have had three kids with him. Marrying him does not add any security these days, this isn’t the 1950s. Theoretically if he had an affair I would leave him and he can pay child allowance just like I would if we were married. And yes, I can go back to work and earn enough to support myself and kids. I’m a sahm mother now out of choice and because having three kids and both of us also having full time jobs when we are financially ok on one salary is too much stress. We would prefer to have less family income and a less stressful family
life that has flexibility for travel. That does not make me unemployable if I did decide to go back to work.

!!!!!

No security? If he died tomorrow you would be in an absolute mess, financially, administratively. You wouldn’t be entitled to widowed parents allowance. You’re not entitled to his pension or anything bar basic CMS if you split after giving up years of working life to be a SAHM. Does he own the house you live in or is it jointly owned?

I know many cases of committed family men cheating or leaving after 20+ years with their spouse. All it took was an attractive woman to work on them until they relented.

This is woefully naive and basically how my mum ended up penniless after splitting from my ‘loyal, decent’ and very wealthy father.

don’t end up like my mum.

[brightyellowflower]

Yes - you're beyond crazy. Get a dog.

And fgs, get married or I sense you'll be posting in a few years time, Help me, unmarried and left with 4 kids, penniless and can't afford childcare, partner walked off with the house. Really stupid to have so many kids without the financial security of marriage. There. I said it!

[Lentilweaver]

Oh my lord. Please look into what you are entitled to as an unmarried mum. Virtually nothing. Most of the unmarried mums who post on here in despair didnt have "trust issues" with their partner.

[Obeast]

Yeah it's not the 1950s. However here's all differences between marriage and legally single. Very much does add security if your boyfriend left or died.

Anyway, your existing kids come before wants. Three kids is loads already.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/living-together-marriage-and-civil-partnership/living-together-and-marriage-legal-differences/

[fluffycatkins]

To be fair to OP she has said the house is hers.

Do you have a pension OP, because that is also a significant consideration?

I will say that aged 48 I am not sorry that my dc only have two years of school left. Not something I considered at 40.

[GoodnightAdeline]

@fluffycatkins

To be fair to OP she has said the house is hers.

Do you have a pension OP, because that is also a significant consideration?

I will say that aged 48 I am not sorry that my dc only have two years of school left. Not something I considered at 40.

No she has said a house is hers…

[supercalafragilisticexpealidocious]

"Marrying him does not add any security these days"

I know you don't want this to be the point of this thread but you are wrong if you think marriage doesn't add any security.

You are not working to raise children. Presumably you don't have a pension you're currently paying into. You may not have any personal savings. You may not be on the deeds of the house you live in. If you were married, a marriage would give you a right to all of these things on divorce. If you are single (which you are) then if you split up you would get nothing. You would be left as a single parent starting your career from a much worse position.

Definitely do your research on marriage before you dismiss it or if marriage isn't for you, get some other protection in place (eg partner pays into a pension for you, you have access to all his accounts and get some savings in your name and get your name on deeds of the family home).

In terms of the fourth baby- it sounds like it's a bad idea to actively pursue. However, having a termination if you're already pregnant is a very different question.

[mydogisthebest]

@brightyellowflower

Yes - you're beyond crazy. Get a dog.

And fgs, get married or I sense you'll be posting in a few years time, Help me, unmarried and left with 4 kids, penniless and can't afford childcare, partner walked off with the house. Really stupid to have so many kids without the financial security of marriage. There. I said it!

Yes she definitely has her head in the sand.

Few years and it will be the usual "oh I'm so hard up and I have 4 children". Some people are so stupid

[Thisisembarassing]

@Newbie887

We have three close together (8, 6 & nearly 5). I am late on my period and think I may be pregnant. Just waiting until the weekend when partner is back to do a pregnancy test together. In the meantime I am wondering what on Earth we do if it is positive.

On one hand, we have always wanted four. However our first and third are hard work (I think likely adhd / mild autism but no diagnosis). Middle child is very easygoing and I could def handle another like her but obviously it’s a gamble…we could afford another and have a car and house that would fit them. There would be a 5 year age gap between youngest and baby so I would have more breathing space if we were to go ahead and have the 4th than I did with the first three. 3 @ 4 yrs and under during lockdown nearly finished me, but I’m trying to separate that experience with what an experience with a 4th at this point in my life might actually be like.

My biggest concern is lack of time with each child. I feel we are stretched as we are, with readin, homework (which tbh we never do), clubs and sports. Remembering everything for school. That type of stuff. I don’t want to get swept away with the excitement of a new baby, only to discover a few years down the line that I don’t feel I have enough time one on one with each child. Can anyone comment on their experience with this?

Am also not sure I could cope with the years of sleepless nights again. We’ve just (in the last 6 months) got all ours sleeping through regularly. It’s a game changer. I feel like a whole person again, and was looking forward to getting back to work part time. A new baby would reset us again.

Also worried about the toll on my body. I will be 40 when giving birth. It’s entirely possible, but I already have a bad back and other mild health issues that will likely worsen. I can be strict with diet and strength training, yoga etc to try and counterbalance that though.

I guess the problem is my brain says it’s not sensible and will add much more workload. But my heart wants to have the 4th. And I wonder if I terminate will that leave a hole in the family that would feel awful? Would I always wonder who that child would have been.

Parents of 3 who have gone for the 4th, and those with 3 who didn’t, can you give me your views please?

Oh god don’t ask on MN, anything above 2 children is a big NO NO.

be prepared for how will you fund oxbridge for 4 kids, pay 12k in flute bills (per child), what if the pool water when you go on holiday is too cold.

realistically, take a deep breath. You might be putting the cart before the horse, Worrying about something that won’t come to pass.

OR if you are actually pregnant and you don’t think you could go through with a termination, you also have your answer.

[Obeast]

There's never a need to quote the entire OP.

[Thisisembarassing]

@GoodnightAdeline

!!!!!

No security? If he died tomorrow you would be in an absolute mess, financially, administratively. You wouldn’t be entitled to widowed parents allowance. You’re not entitled to his pension or anything bar basic CMS if you split after giving up years of working life to be a SAHM. Does he own the house you live in or is it jointly owned?

I know many cases of committed family men cheating or leaving after 20+ years with their spouse. All it took was an attractive woman to work on them until they relented.

This is woefully naive and basically how my mum ended up penniless after splitting from my ‘loyal, decent’ and very wealthy father.

don’t end up like my mum.

How can you possibly say she’d end up in the shit. He could have a will that’s left everything to her? I’ve not seen OP say otherwise. He could have substantial life insurance policies.

he could be contributing to a pension for her too, again I’ve not seen OP state otherwise.