Secondary infertility

[YorkshireTeaDrinker]

Am in cycle 19 TTC #2. We have a beautiful DD who took a while to conceive (managed on cycle 16, got my BFP the day before our referral appointment for fertility treatment!) so I expected it to take a while to get a second. However, time is ticking by (am 37) and I really do want DD to have a sibling, so I have been to the GP. First set of investigations have been done and and DH and I have an appointment with the GP this afternoon to get test results and hopefully a referral.

I am feeling a strange combination of emotions. I feel a bit guilty for wanting another child so much when I already have a wonderful DD. I am worried about what treatment may be necessary, how we can pay for it, even if it would be appropriate to fund trying to conceive another child when we could spend those resources on giving the child we already have the best possible start in life.

I even feel a tiny bit guilty for even posting this here, as I already have a child and should be grateful for what I have (and I am, very much). But I can't help longing for another, I get so envious of friends who have / are going on to have second children (and in some cases contemplating a third). I am a mummy, I no longer have to deal with the awful feeling of wondering if I will ever know the joy of parenthood, but every month I have the same disappointment and sense of failure when AF arrives, coupled with the anxiety that every month lost makes the potential age gap bigger.

So please tell me your good news about secondary infertility. Did you get your BFP eventually? Or did you manage to come to terms with not having another and make the most of your smaller than planned family? And if you did go down the path of intervention, what did it involve? Was it successful? Do you have any regrets?

[Sunnydaisy]

Just stopping by to say hello. Hoping that many of the original posters have since had good news and no longer check these boards?
We've just been through an ivf cycle which didn't go terribly well so am feeling pretty sad. So wish someone would take this desire for another baby away :-(

[omama]

Hi sunny so sorry to hear the ivf didnt go so well.

IKWYM about wishing the desire for another baby wld go away. We are still ttc, been just over 18months with a mmc at 11wks at the end of june. This is my 2nd cycle ttc post mc & I've been getting high fertility opks all wk & dh has decided its too much pressure so we havent dtd at the vital time. Its so hard to let go of the testing as the desire is so strong & I feel like every time we dont try its another month wasted, we're another month older, the age gap gets another month bigger. I almost want to stop as folks always say it happens when u relax, but at the back of my mind that longing will always be there, I will always know where I am in my cycle & even if I don't say anything to dh, he will know its time if I make a pass at him, so even without saying, the pressure will still be there iyswim? How on earth do you go on like this? I feel like the only way to change things & remove the pressure is to stop ttc & accept ds is going to be an only. I'm just not sure I'm ready to accept it. Do you ever accept it?
I realise some people have been ttc much longer than us & my heart really goes out to you, it is so tough. I suppose I shouldnt really moan, i just wanted to get my feelings out, dont have anyone to talk to about this irl.

[Jakeyblueblue]

Hi,
Was wondering if I could join you all?
We've been ttc no 2 since around ds 1st birthday and he's now 2.2.
I'm not in the same position as some of you, in the respect that I am still bf ds and think this may have something to do with our difficulties. If any of you have ever extended breastfed you'll know its not as simple as just stopping and I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Bit of background, ds took some time to concieve but we weren't exactly Dtd regularly due to working hours etc. ended up going fertility clinic and she said we needed to Dtd 3x weekly ever week and come back in 6 months if it didn't work. I caught the next cycle so assumed there was no issue and we'd not been Dtd enough but am now beginning to wonder If ds was my little miracle and there was a problem all along.
Until recently, my LP has been rubbish and that's most likely bf related due to increased prolactin levels. But I'm now taking b6 and have weaned across the day so I'm having a break of 13-14 hrs with no bf. last two cycles I've had an impressive 12 day LP but still not back to the 14 days I had prior to pregnancy. We still co sleep and he still feeds overnight and I know its the night feeds that really effect hormone control so I know I need to try to stop this but I'm dead against controlled crying and need to use gentle weaning to try to cut down feeds one at a time like I've done in the day.
I really don't know what to do next. Do I go to the gp and run some tests knowing that they are going to tell me to wean? Do I forget it and go back to it once he's weaned?? But then I'm getting older and Im worried its not the bf and I would just be prolonging getting help if there actually was a problem all along!!!
One thing I do know is that its starting to really worry me and I'm finding other babies and pregnancies very difficult to be around. No one really understands. 1. They think I ought to be lucky to have ds. 2. They think I should just wean him!! But it's just not that easy.
I used to be on the ttc whilst bf board but everyone and all the new people that replaced them got pregnant, so why can't I?? It's obviously possible!! Just feel I now ought to be in this thread rather than the other!
Anyway, sorry for the rant. Just needed to tell people who might understand.
Hope you are all having better luck in your journeys :-)

[mummysmall18]

hi everyone.
not sure how to use this site but thought id give it a go. firstly im sorry to hear all of the heartbreaking stories before me. I have read so many of them and can relate to your feelings so well.
we have been trying for a 2nd baby for nearly 2 years now. we have a little girl who is 4 (5 in january). my heart breaks each month that goes by. i tell myself each time that ill be stronger this month and look at the positives but its so hard.

I have had blood tests/scans all normal. my husbands SA on three occasions was low count. now waiting for him to be ref to a urologist as it could be queried ejaculatory duct blockage as he has other symptoms too. has anyone else been through this??

I too feel alone as I never feel I can talk to anyone about it as its so private. I think people assume as you have a child of course you can have more. I love my daughter to pieces she is my whole world but I feel the family is incomplete. each month when the cramps start for AF I feel my heart screams inside as I feel yet another month to wait. we tried for nearly a year to conceive her and had 1 miscarriage at 8 weeks. all my friends now have at least 2 babies and my sister is currently pregnant with her third. it breaks my heart when everyone asks when im going to have another and I just want to scream in their faces!!

I came on here to look for and offer support in this crazy, private and upsetting world that is secondary infertility.

i feel like I get to the point each month and say to myself when am I going to stop and get on with our lives as a threesome. but how do you break away from something and accept something that you want so much it hurts.

if anyone has been through it with low sperm count id love to hear your story.

AF due yesterday but I feel the cramps coming. I hate this time of the month and I feel every little feeling could be a pregnancy sign it drives me bonkers.

thank you for listening
xx

[YorkshireTeaDrinker]

Just noticed some recent activity on this thread, so thought I'd come back and join the intermittent conversation. sunny so sorry to hear that the lVF didn't work. Your comment about wanting someone to "take this desire for a baby away" resonates so strongly.

mummysmall I get what you are saying about wanting to stop and get on with your lives as a threesome. I keep trying to work up to that, but I know I am not ready to let that dream of another person in our family go yet.

Just a quick update on my situation, I was pregnant, as mentioned in my lasted post, and hoping this would be my happy ending, but had a MC at 9 weeks last month. Now into my first cycle post MC, back to loads of DTD on demand during peak shagging week. Now 3 dpo and DH and I both pretty happy to be able to stop!

Omama I really feel for you re DH feeling under pressure. My DH started off all businesslike at the start of the month and wanted to be informed when we needed to DTD, but he was starting to feel the pressure. Maybe the solution is to try and step away from system monitoring for a couple of months? You will always know roughly where you are in your cycle, but maybe cut out the OPKs and move to a regular DTD during the first half of the month, rather than focusing on ovulation. I had a few months of just trying to ensure we DTD every 3/4 days from the end of my period to about CD20. The month I got my BFP we had only DTD 3 times all cycle and only once in what I retrospectively identified as my fertile window. And if you tell DH you are going to stop tracking your cycle and have a couple of months of only shagging when you feel like it, it might help him feel less pressure?

Jakeyblue I don't really have much knowledge of TTC whilst BF. I BF DD till 10 months and then gave up fairly abruptly. I had no periods at all whilst BF, even when DD was weaned during the day, so just assumed that it wouldn't be possible to conceive whilst BF. Some people obviously can, I have friends who did, but other women evidently respond differently. Obviously stopping BF should increase your chances. I don't think you face a stark choice between co-sleeping and CC. When we were trying to encourage DD to settle in her cot at night after I stopped BFing her to sleep, I had a few months of lying next to her cot and holding her hand as she went to sleep and then gradually started leaving earlier and getting her to hold Dolly's hand instead of mummy's. Or you could maybe keep the co-sleeping, but try to eliminate the night feeding? You need to reassure DS that mummy is still able to provide snuggles and comfort, just without the milk.

So sorry that so many of us are in this position. Secondary infertility is something of a secret sorrow. So hard to discuss and so hard to move on from. Hoping for some positive outcomes soon.

[Lintilla]

Hi All
It's sad to see people back here. sunny I am so sorry the IVF didn't work.

Tea I am so sorry for your loss. It is so painful to lose something you have wanted for so long. You are absolutely right, it is so hard to discuss and so are to move on from.

Jakeyblue when we first started trying for our number 2 my DD was 6 months old and still BF. after six months of trying I mentioned to the practice nurse that I was still BF and should this cause any issues and she said no. (I then stopped BF at 14 months in an attempt to prove my father wrong, as he was adamant that this was the cause of our failure to conceive... 3 years down the line I think I've won that argument but I stopped BF my DD far earlier than planned!) Your GP may not see it as an issue and may refer you for tests anyway.

mummysmall 2 out of 3 of DH's SA have been bad and I don't know the results of the 3rd. However I have conceived three times so there must be something there. Last year we tried zinc for a while and I then conceived in September and again December but have had nothing since so we're going to give it another try. I don't know if this helps.

I had another consultant appointment yesterday. Following 2 early miscarriages last year I was referred for recurrent miscarriage testing. Nothing came up but in June, 6 months after my last miscarriage, I was put on clomid for 3 months with day 21 progesterone tests for the first 2 cycles. The first test came back at 12, the second was 8. Yesterday the consultant decided that as I have proved I can get pregnant 3 times clomid is not the right drug for me and that the low progesterone has no bearing on conception but I have a prescription for progesterone to be taken once I get a positive pregnancy test. I am to go back in 6 months. I just don't feel this is right but don't know what to do about it. How do I even get a positive pregnancy test with progesterone that low? I don't know what to do next.

Sorry for rambling.

[caramelgirl]

Hi Lintilla , just popping in to say that progesterone solved our secondary infertility issues in the first month (after 18 months of mc and bfns). We'd had an HSF to no avail too. I also started acupuncture at the same time as the progesterone.
Obviously everyone is different but I had no obvious issues, and DH had good SA results.
I am eternally grateful for my DC2 (now 5 months) and it was well worth 14 weeks of "bum bullets" and all the other indignities they came with.
Best of luck to you all

[caramelgirl]

Oh and I had to take the progesterone from 10 days post ovulation.

[Flutternutter]

In some ways I think its even harder when its your second one. Yes, I do realise it means you have the privilege of one gorgeous child, which is of course so much luckier than many, many others ... but its such a shock when the second one doesn't happen. To be honest just because you have a child doesn't in any way stop you from desperately wanting another. I had my second child at 37, a lot quicker than the 5 years it took to get my first. My second came along quickly and naturally, Ive since found out I was going through early onset menopause and it was my bodies was of a 'last ditch attempt' thank god it worked !

I am now baking for National Infertility Awareness Week which is 28th Oct - 3 Nov 2013 ( www.niaw.org.uk) I want to do everything I can to help x

[MistressofPemberley]

Just wanted to offer a bit of hope. I struggled to have a second after DS (now 5.5). Had 3 mcs. Decided to take drastic action so gave up alcohol and caffeine, improved diet and started weekly acupuncture. It was hard work and I did fall off the wagon a few times but my luteal phase increased, as did progesterone levels and when we were 'allowed' to start trying after 4/5 months treatment, I was pregnant within 3 months. Acupuncturist worked on retention, and I got through the long 40 weeks. My gorgeous DD is 8 weeks old and my DS is an extremely proud and helpful big brother. I want a third now .
It's been a long road and I've had to invest but obviously totally worth it. Good luck.

[Lintilla]

Thank you caramelgirl, they've only given me progesterone to take after I get a positive test whereas I think it may help to take before. I've been back to my doctor to check with her and she agrees that my very low progesterone would indicate that I am not ovulating. I don't know where to go from here as the consultant doesn't see that there is a problem and my GP can't do any more than she has. I am definitely taking 3 months off trying and then will see how I feel after but it may be that we get a private consultation.

It has been three long years and I feel a bit fed up of it all at the moment.

[caramelgirl]

Hi Lintilla , we had to go privately to pay for HSG, progesterone and consultations. We just went to a regular Gynae (my mum's in fact).
It wasn't as horrendously expensive as I had feared and more than ten times cheaper than IVF.
The next step would have been clomid which she said would prompt ovulation if I wasn't producing eggs as well as boosting progesterone levels post ovulation.
All my sympathies, it became my total obsession and I hated that it took over my whole consciousness.

[Lintilla]

Caramelgirl Thank you so much, that has helped a lot. I think, after taking a break for 3 months or however long I decide until I'm ready again, we will get a private consultation. I have lost all faith in the NHS consultant as I have still never met him personally, just a series of different registrars who all say different things. It is so frustrating and I need to take a step back from my obsession for a while!!

[littlemim]

Hi ladies, can I join the conversation?

I'm in my second cycle taking Clomid after over a year of trying for No 2. We'd have started trying earlier but DH had to work away for a long time, and I don't think I'd have managed with DD and a new-born on my own.

DD is 5 now and constantly comments that she doesn't have any brothers or sister, and then puts her old toys away for when we have a baby. It breaks my heart! Especially as my twin sister has just had her 2nd DS, both since I had DD. Her comment to be thankful for DD and buy her a dog for company didn't particularly go down well...

I have PCOS and Sjogren's syndrome which make me tired as well as causing other problems such as vasculitis flares etc. We have to plan our BDing as I'm too tired for spontanious dancing most of the time. The fact he's been away during the week for the last 3 weeks, and then again this week doesn't help either.

I just fell that I'm getting on a bit now at 37 (fast approaching 38) and the age gap between DD and No 2 is close to being too big. I can't bring myself to look too closely at when we should admit defeat and walk away.

Hugs to you all.

LM

[Dawnie1984]

This is my first post so please bear with me! I have got one child seven years old, we have been trying for another baby since we were physically able to after having him. Like others I feel guilty and selfish that I already have a baby and I want more! I see other families up at the school with more than one child and feel awful that I want what they have got! Should I not just feel like that I am lucky to have him? I have friends that don't have children and I feel awful for them that they have not experienced or have got what I have got, but I really can not help it! I visited the doctors and they have said I have got PCOS and the way to help conceive would be to loose weight, I have been trying since I had my son, also they have offered me the pill to calm my symptoms down I am trying desperately to try anything and I felt the doctor did not really want to help me! I feel so low can any one please help me with advice and how to deal with my being selfish for wanting more! I wondered if I should just give up my hope of more so I wouldn't go through the heartbreak ever month! ? Any advice is so welcome as I feel so alone and can't talk to my friends as the comments normally are ' just think you are so lucky to have had one!'

[dontyouknow]

A good news story here. Got pregnant with DD 7 years ago within a month. A few years later never really occurred to us it might not be so easy second time round.

We decided not to have any tests/treatment. A few years later, pretty much gave up. Not really trying as such. Just about to clear all the baby stuff out of the garage/loft when I found out I was pregnant. Bit of a surprise but a wonderful one!

DS born a few days before I was 40, when DD was 6 1/2. As many of you say, I was constantly thinking about age gaps previously. I now think the large gap is great - there are so many benefits. With DD at school I have been able to spend a lot of time on maternity leave with DS alone, as I did with DD when she was a baby. I like that they have both had time alone with me. We have also avoided two lots of nursery fees together. DD can look after DS to some extent, so I can have a quick shower or go to the loo in peace (not easy if you have a baby and a toddler!) DD really dotes on her baby brother. She will be able to remember coming to hospital and holding him when he was a few hours old, getting the first smile from him, feeding him his first spoonful of food etc, which she would not be able to remember if there was a small gap. There are of course different advantages to small gaps but for us it has worked out really well.

I hope you all get some good news too. I know how difficult it is.

[Mothersruin75]

Hi Dawnie,
It's hard to be in the position of secondary infertility, you desperately want another child, yet feel awful for thinking like that when you are blessed to have one. This is how I felt, I distanced myself from my first post natal group who were all having their second with ease.

I have PCO but we went for further investigation and found that DH has antisperm antibodies so after an easy first conception we needed ICSI - IVF. We had many failed cycles and amazingly our final cycle worked, though it really wasn't looking as though it would. I'm now sat here bouncing my twins!

When we thought it was all over for us I kept thinking of the positives of an only child and trying not to focus on the negatives. It is so tough though and your post describes precisely how I felt.

I had a couple of good friends who helped me through who never said 'you are lucky to have one'. Have you got anyone like this? It was me that kept saying, I'm lucky to have DC and I was, when I had a failed cycle the one thing that made me feel better was a hug from DC but we were (at that point in time) unlucky to not be able to have a wanted DC2 and it hurt a lot. Infertility sucks.

[goddessnic]

Hi everyone, I hope this thread is still open, I'm glad I found it. We've been trying for 3 years now for dc2, ds is 6 years old, and we conceived him literally first go. I was 35 then and 42 now so have the added panic of my age. Its so heartbreaking and people don't really understand, I dont know anyone else in the same position, all my other friends have 2 or 3 kids or are happy with one. This desperate yearning is so hard to deal with. My son keeps asking me when I'm going to have a baby too.
Ive been wondering when is the right time to give up, for my own sanity. We are saving for IUI right now and I think after that we will have to stop trying, although I know I will always be aware where I am in my cycle and the hope will never leave me. @ mothersruin yes I have had people say you should be happy with one,but that really doesn't help!

[goddessnic]

Hi everyone, I hope this thread is still open, I'm glad I found it. We've been trying for 3 years now for dc2, ds is 6 years old, and we conceived him literally first go. I was 35 then and 42 now so have the added panic of my age. Its so heartbreaking and people don't really understand, I dont know anyone else in the same position, all my other friends have 2 or 3 kids or are happy with one. This desperate yearning is so hard to deal with. My son keeps asking me when I'm going to have a baby too.
Ive been wondering when is the right time to give up, for my own sanity. We are saving for IUI right now and I think after that we will have to stop trying, although I know I will always be aware where I am in my cycle and the hope will never leave me. @ mothersruin yes I have had people say you should be happy with one,but that really doesn't help!

[Desperatelyseekingcompletion]

I wondered if I could join your group for support and to support others. I hope this thread is still open too.

I too am ttc#2. I have a dd aged 7 years. She is my world and I love her so much. We've been ttc for 5 years now with 1 confirmed mc and possibly a further 2/3 but unconfirmed. I no longer can bring myself to test. They have all been very early on.

I have had all the tests including the lap and dye - all clear and normal and dh has amazing swimmers so nothing came up as a problem. We are considered as having unexplained secondary infertility which is probably the worst diagnosis. I can't fix unexplained as we don't know the cause. I'm a planner and a fixer and yet I am helpless and feel unable to control this part of my life. Many think it is stress and it'll happen but what if it isn't? So many are stressed with the economic climate. Who is to say stress really has any effect....I was 28 when we conceived dd first month trying. I am now 36 and dh is 41.

I feel so helpless and guilty. My dd desperately wants a sibling and is so patient. She can't understand why we don't adopt. In her eyes its simple.
She is great with other children. She adores her cousins and she is so generous and loving. I don't want her labelled an only child and I don't want her to grow up alone. Sometimes I watch her play (alone) and feel so sad. Her sister/brother should be there to play with. Ok it can't be quite so idealic. They'll fall out, squabble and argue. That's all part of growing up and she is missing out on this. What would happen if something happened to me and dh. She'd be alone. Fear creeps in and it's irrational and still. All these feelings no-one understands unless they too experience the dreaded label of "unexplained secondary infertility" and have a yearning heart for more children. The most natural thing in the world. The very point of our existence and I am unable to complete it. I feel like a failure.

This was not in my plan. I always wanted 3 children, 2 girls and a boy last as they're babies longer. I thought I'd have 3 year age gaps and all would be wonderful. Just goes to show we have no control really in what cards we are dealt. Now I'd be happy with either and just one more.

I enjoy every minute with my dd but I cannot fill that void in our lives. I don't take anything for granted, I know how lucky I am to have a dd but I still write this with a heavy heart.

I too have questions like "when are you going to have another?" Or "you should be glad you have one" "she make a great big sister" easy for you to say when you sit there with 2 or 3.

I sit here having failed again is month. But still with hope I pick myself up on CD2 and think about the next bd for the coming month and maybe it will be this time. Sadly the feeling never goes away and whilst we pretend to relax and get on with other things, its still there in the back of my mind. I still know my dates and check for my signs.

I pray one day we will be blessed with another miracle or joy and this pain of feeling incomplete will go away xxx

[goddessnic]

Hi desperately seeking completion, I'm not sure this thread is open still, noone has replied to my message of a while ago. There is another thread called secondary infertility and that was active until a few weeks ago.
Everything you said I can identify with. It was like I was talking! It made me cry. Its so hard isn't it, this heartbreaking yearning. I desperately want to complete our family but I think its looking unlikely now, me being nearly 43.
If you want support and a chat, I am around.
Nic x

[stoopstofolly]

I spent 4 years TTC #2 after getting pregnant 1st time out with #1. All tests came back fine, so they couldn't understand it- I kept being told it was my age (34 when I started). I had 3 very early miscarriages, then nothing. Eventually I insisted that there had to be a medical problem and got a referral to a specialist. He diagnosed me in minutes.... Something called Ashermans. Basically it's scar tissue sticking the uterus together, and is impossible to formally diagnose without a very unpleasant internal scan. It's more common post D&C or after a traumatic birth, but I'd had neither. As it was now a "medical" problem I got it fixed easily- very small operation to snip the sides apart, pregnant the next month. The reason I mention it is that the doctor at the time said in his opinion it was a significant cause of secondary infertility, and was just missed because it's so hard to diagnose.
If you've not already been looked at for this it might be worth speaking to your doctor. Good luck.

[Desperatelyseekingcompletion]

Thank you Goddessnic, it would be great to chat and support each other. I am naturally an eternal optimist so I can't let go of the hope it might work. Sorry I made you cry. I'm relieved I am not the only person going through this although I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. It's simply awful. Are you having or had any treatment? I've tried clomid but only the lowest dose. It made me evil and I felt horrible on it. We are considering IUI next year and reluctantly maybe IVF (it's the money involved that worries me and knowing when to stop!)xx

Dear Stoopstofolly, thank you for your response. I had never head of Ashermans. Would this not be picked up having a lap and dye? I had a c section with my dd and I had thought this may be the cause but it apparently wasn't. My Consultant said it was all clear and ok. I have regularly periods averaging 27/28 day cycle. Might be worth asking again. I am currently on a mission to get fit and lose weight too. I have been comfort eating which doesn't help either.

xxx

[stoopstofolly]

Hi Desperately seeking! To get the Ashermans diagnosed I had to have a hysterosalpingogram,(an x-ray of the uterus and fallopian tubes). I can remember being held in place by two nurses to stop me sliding off the bed, as they have to told you upside down! As I said, my doc said in his opinion it was massively under diagnosed. Out of my small group of childbearing friends (12 women?) two of us had it. My friend only found out about it because of my experience- conceived her DS soon after the operation as well.
This is a good website
www.totalhealth.co.uk/clinical-experts/mr-adrian-lower/understanding-ashermans-syndrome

I can remember the desperation of those years- timetabled sex, bulk purchasing ovulation predictors, monthly disappointment. Best wishes to you all- it does happen.

[Desperatelyseekingcompletion]

Thank you. I will definitely look into it in more detail. I have come across an article online from the Daily Mail relating to a specialist called Mr. Geoffrey Trew he is a specialist Consultant in Hammersmith. Do you recognise the name?

The desperation is awful. It does help when you know others have felt and endured the same. It's so nice to hear it worked out well for you. I hope I can say the same and this will eventually all be a distant memory and I can move on and become complete xx