Labour to extend school day to 8 till 6

[Mud]

What do you think of these new plans to be unveiled

[Gobbledigook]

QF - we've had similar. Dh has been up for promotion a couple of times but he isn't purely because the regional manager says he can't give the commitment they want - basically he has told him that it's because he leaves work between 6 and 6.30 rather than working late.

Dh just says 'stuff em, I'm going home to bath my children' for which I am very grateful, but it does annoy me that he is penalised in this way (and quite blatantly too!).

His company is reknowned for being very crap at the family friendly stuff and they are often taken to tribunals (they usually settle out of court).

[QueenFlounce]

GDG - DH went to the Union and suddenly he was re-instated as a newly trained Manager, but is still awaiting a placement... they are withholding his pay rise until then.

Anyway... aside from all that... I will welcome the change of school times

HOWEVER, I have just noticed this will only apply to ENGLAND!!!

[happymerryberries]

One think is for sure, teachers will not be manning te extra hours unless they get paid for it! Or at least none of the nes that I know will do it (and that includes me!)

Today I was in work at 7.30, and I left school at 4.20. I have around 3 hours of work to do tonight. There is no way on gods earth that I would add to my work load unless I get paid for it!

The same goes for holidays. Yes, it is true that teacher get exceptionaly good holidays. It is also true that we spend part of them in planning, marking etc. However many of us have gone into teaching knowing that we have very similar holidays to our children. If you take away the holidays with no added cash you are effectivly slashing our hourly rate, and forcing us to arrange child care in the holidays which would cost money. There is now way that I would consider this. I could get a far bettr paid job than teaching, I choose not to because teaching is a great job that fits in with my children's schooling. Take away the latter and I would walk, and I wouldn't be alone.

[Caligula]

There was a very pertinent e-mail about this on PM this evening. Somebody pointed out that if they do introduce this, it will give firms the excuse not to grant flexible hours, as affordable and reliable childcare will be universally available and therefore flexible hours unnecessary. In other words, it could be another stick with which to beat mothers, rather than a support for them. Which I thought was quite a good observation.

[suedonim]

I heard some of that interview, Ambrosia. I couldn't believe that in one breath she was claiming volunteers could run the clubs and in the next saying they'd be subject to Ofsted inspections! What sort of masochist is going to put themselves up for that?

She also painted a wonderful picture of children getting football training & so on & so forth. It's my understanding that schools already have trouble getting people to help with after-school activities and to join PTA's so I just cannot imgine where all these public-spirited folks are to come from.

[happymerryberries]

I think someone thought this was a good idea but hasn't thought through the detail. the money they are offering will not come close to funding the care. I can't see enough people giving up their time free of charge, as you said, who would be mad enough to put themselved through an ofsted!!!?

And teacher will not want to give up time that the currently use for marking and preparation. And you couldn't do that and supervise children at the same time.

[milward]

The govt needs to do this properly & get childminders, playgroup leaders involved. Most schools have a large dining room, assemmbly room or gym that could be used. There are also playgrounds. Older kids could do their homework supervised in a classroom that wasn't being used. The younger ones could run about outside or if there was bad weather have activities inside.
I don't think it will stop flex hours at work as there is the system of childminers & relatives/friends taking care of kids at the moment and this hasn't negatively effected how firms are required to operate.

[Caligula]

I can't believe they think volunteers will do it. I have difficulty getting volunteers to sign up for four hours a month easy driving, where hundreds of volunteers for 3 hours a day are going to come from, I don't know.

[Fennel]

wordsmith, my dp used that right to request flexible working, in the private sector, male dominated firm. he got a 4 days week. he wasn't popular for it and it does affect his promotion prospects.

he wouldn't have got it without the formal right, I suspect.

I don't really see what the fuss is about wraparound childcare. many of the schools round here have it including our local primary. it's staffed by paid outsiders (mostly parents). it runs 8-9am and 3-6. it's popular with the kids who get to play in the school grounds with their friends. my dds age 5 and 3 go once a week, sometimes twice, for a couple of hours. the 5 year old wants to go more. we still both work part time and see plenty of our children but it's a very good form of childcare and extremely useful.

[Fennel]

in fact I know two 5 year olds who go several times a week though they have a parent at home - cos they want to play with their friends. I am not saying I would do that but to the children it's perhaps like playing out in the street with their friends after school used to be, for previous generations.

[milward]

ambrosia - appreciate your comments. Couldn't they split up the grous into year groups like during the day. Have the older kids doing homework in year groups - even in their form rooms. Kids would be supervised and have to treat the surroundings with respect. The cleaners would have to work different hours perhaps. After this some would go home & those that stayed would be in the largest room - hall ect or playground. For the little ones activities in a large room or a classroom dpending on how many would stay. This is how it is organised in other european countries & it works very well.

[ThePrisoner]

I'm a childminder and one of my mindees was distraught at the idea that she would have to attend school from 8-6! She wants to chill out after school, not do "more lessons" (which is how she sees it), and be told what she can or can't do.

[tigermoth]

Fennel, my son's primary is so different to the ones you describe. I wish their school had the facilites to offer pre and after school childcare - I think it's a great idea that childen can stay on to play with their friends. Our school is the smallest in the borough - 170 on the roll. It has no gym, small playgrouds and its only assembly space is shared with the church - a basic, small prefab-like church hall. There is simply no space for the school to expand. It is surrounded by common land, but this land cannot be built on.

If the government is serious about making extended hours compulsary at all schools, I don't know where that leaves ours. It would have to close or move location.

[happymerryberries]

And I know that I am going to come across as realy 'anal' but it can play hell with a lass if things are moved around. I know this sounds daft, trust me I'd have thought it daft before I came into teaching but if you have a 'dodgy' class the slightest little thing can set them off. I have a class first thing in the morning and my classroom is used by a flower aranging class. they once left some lilies in the class and the smell make the kids 'go off on one'. They all ended up shouting and yelling about the smell and how 'crap' the room smelled! You can't believe how little it takes to set kids off.

And the thought of them sitting quietly doing the homework? Yer, right!

[Fennel]

tigermoth, our school is quite small (30 children a year). the after school club has one room (which is also used for playgroups), it also uses the Early years unit (where my dds go during the day, very suitable for the little one) and the school computer room (for the older children. It's very much a "playing" time, noone is forced to do anything, but there's lots of different activities. my dds particularly like getting to play with some of the bigger children who pet them a lot.

[Cam]

Yep, starting to look like the beginning of the privatisation of the whole education system to me.

[tigermoth]

dinosaur and doddle - your lucky children to have all those after school facilities. Our local playclubs are more of the ping pong table and board game variety.

I must say, I see it principally as time for my sons to relax. The staff are really kind and experienced, too. I have no real complaints but realise if my sons are get sports or academic coaching or most of the other things Polly Toynbee mentions, I will need to organise that outstide playclub hours. School has some music and french classes, but places are limited. That means our weekends are busy.

I really think it is a good idea for all children to be given the chance to learn this stuff if they want to. dh and I have the time(just) and inclinatin to let our 11 year old do his choice of extra curricular activities - currently scouts, cricket and drama. He gets to do tenor horn and football classes in school hours, but all these classes still need paying for and organising. He really enjoys them and gets lots out of them, too.

I have often wondered how he'd fare if we simply couldn't or wouldn't let him do them. Lots of children we know are in that position. He really is dependent on us, his parents.

[Cam]

Quote from Boris Johnson article in Daily Telegraph June 16

[Cam]

Oh I know dino, that's why I posted it

[bundle]

the majority of kids at afterschool club at dd1's school are black, definitely the less well off families. the "posher" kids tend to have nannies picking them up.

[Caligula]

Well how Polly Toynbee describes it is as some kind of after school nirvana, with pupils having guitar and piano lessons, sports activities, etc. I don't want to be cynical and spoil such a lovely picture, and if she were right I'd be the first to sign up for the after school clubs, but does anyone really think this (or any other) government is going to fund this?

And re funding, it sounds like one of the models being considered is that it will work the same way school dinners does - if you're on income support you'll get it free, but if you're on an extremely low wage, even with tax credits, you won't be able to afford it.