Everyone to receive jab against swine flu

[sherby]

here

will you be having it?

[ShowOfHands]

I don't doubt that Pyrocanthus. I was questioning the vaccine being available to everyone.

[Pyrocanthus]

Yes, sorry, I was making the obvious point there, but I suspect if 60+% of the population are predicted to get it, then it might be cheaper to vaccinate than treat.

[NeedaNewName]

Are they starting with the schools lower down on the league tables?! Has no one thought of the 4-5-6?

[nettie]

[Kayteee]

yes, needanewname,

you're the 3rd if you red the thread back

[Kayteee]

"read"

[NeedaNewName]

oops sorry to be repetative

[2kidzandi]

I'm asthmatic, but I never suffered as badly with flu as I did when I had the flu jab it left me really ill. since then I prefer to just take my chances and never seem to catch it really badly.

I won't be queing up for a vaccine as I think the media are hyping it up. Even the doctor on the radio yesterday said there had to date been more deaths in otherwise healthy people from normal flu than this one. I won't go out of my way to avoid catching it naturally at this stage either.

[junglist1]

I want the vaccine. I wasn't worried before and now I'm starting to brick it I don't trust the government or doctors to do the right thing by me and mine. My friends brother has it and has been in agony all day with no advice, no Tamiflu, no nothing. They might as well tell him to fuck off and die, the family are worried sick

[VelvetCushions]

The last swine flu vaccine had to be withdrawn because it killed and brain damaged people. I think it was in the late 70's.

[junglist1]

Oh great and typical. If the flu don't get us the government will eh

[VelvetCushions]

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, if thats what you're implying. Its a fact. I think its quite scary.

[VelvetCushions]

Here's an article en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_swine_flu_outbreak

[junglist1]

I just think their sheer incompetence and bungling will out if this gets any worse. Will read article now

[elliott]

I think the more interesting question is not whether you'd have it yourself, but whether you would get your children vaccinated?
On the whole I am pro immunisation but I confess to feeling slightly uneasy about signing up for a 'rush job'....that's probably irrational fear though and I guess there's no reason to expect that this vaccine will be any less safe than normal flu vaccine.
What I really want is for us all to get it now and recover quickly!

[AnotherSingleDad]

Hi I'm new here, I discovered this site after watching an article about Swine flu on BBC News 24.

I've never been more anxious in my whole life, with myself, and my daughters all suffering from Asthma. My youngest only has it slightly, I'm moderate, and my eldest is moderate to severe.

I really don't know what the future is going to hold for us three, but one thing I am certain about is that we WILL NOT be having any vaccine!

Look at this article on Times:Online: Everyone will get vaccine against swine flu

A couple of paragraphs in the article stand out for me:

"The path of a popular medicine from the laboratory to the chemist or doctor?s surgery can involve years of clinical trials on a select group of patients. When the new vaccine for swine flu arrives in Britain, regulators said this weekend, it could be approved for use in just five days. "

and:

"Regulators at the European Medicines Agency (EMEA) said the fast-tracked procedure has involved clinical trials of a ?mock-up? vaccine similar to the one that will be used for the biggest mass vaccination programme in generations. It will be introduced into the general population while regulators continue to carry out simultaneous clinical trials."

and:

"The first patients in the queue for the jab - being supplied to the UK by GSK and Baxter Healthcare - may understandably be a little nervous at any possible side effects. A mass vaccination campaign against swine flu in America was halted in the 1970s after some people suffered Guillain-Barré syndrome, a disorder of the nervous system."

Now, I don't know about everyone else here, but I am not willing to take a chance on an unproven vaccine that will be having clinical trials as it is being rolled out across the country! I'd rather take my chances with the virus.

[RubberDuck]

ASD - that's misleading - the normal seasonal flu vaccine doesn't have years of clinical trials. It's the same jab with different strains of flu according what's floating around. They release two a year - one for the southern hemisphere and one for the northern hemisphere flu seasons, so they have about a 6 month turn around where they have to choose the strains, grow the strains, trial it and get it out.

Could you get normal seasonal flu vaccine in the 70s, btw? My google research has come up blank. I do know the major issue with the one in the 70s was that they trialled one vaccine, then changed it and used the second one without any trials at all. They've also had 30 years experience since then of making normal seasonal flu vaccines, so a slightly different scenario.

My understanding is that this is not a whole new vaccine - the issues are though how much active ingredient of this particular strain will be effective (the smaller amount you can get away with means they can produce more vaccines for more people) - especially important as they're having problems growing enough of the virus to use in the vaccinations.

[RubberDuck]

(Oh and general rule of thumb, never rely on a newspaper (no matter how reputable) for science/medical reporting - they invariably completely screw up the science).

[RubberDuck]

A very good analysis of the 1976 non-outbreak

[RubberDuck]

CDC info about seasonal flu vaccine gives this information:

'Guillain-Barré syndrome: Normally, about one person per 100,000 people per year will develop Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS), an illness characterized by fever, nerve damage, and muscle weakness. In 1976, vaccination with the swine flu vaccine was associated with getting GBS. Several studies have been done to evaluate if other flu vaccines since 1976 were associated with GBS. Only one of the studies showed an association. That study suggested that one person out of 1 million vaccinated persons may be at risk of GBS associated with the vaccine."

So basically, 1 in 100,000 will get GBS anyway regardless of flu shot.

It was thought to have been 8 in 1,000,000 got GBS with the 1976 swine flu vaccination programme (and that was probably only noticed because of a heightened surveillance programme at the time, then overhyped by the media).

If there is any association (studies vary), then normal risk from seasonal flu vaccine is 1 in 1,000,000.

What was the suspected mortality rate of flu? Somewhere between 0.2%-0.4% depending on who you read? So 2-4 in 1,000.

It's a numbers game, but I'm still veering towards vaccination myself. There's no such thing as a zero risk life.

[noddyholder]

Is the vaccine they are in the process of developing a 'version' of the current seasonal flu vaccine tailored to deal with this particular strain.I am immunosuppressed and have had the seasonal vaccine for the last 10 yrs and have never had a reaction or had flu either and am wondering if there is any residual immunity from all the other vaccines i've had. Is that article saying that the 1976 outbreak never became as bad as they thought?

[RubberDuck]

Yes, the outbreak was never as bad as they thought, but then they started vaccinating before the spread. In this outbreak, we have definite confirmed spread of the virus.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe swine flu is any worse than normal flu - in many cases, it seems much milder. However I'm at risk from normal flu too, so if there is a vaccine available, I'll take it.

[RubberDuck]

Picking apart that Times article a bit more:

"The path of a popular medicine from the laboratory to the chemist or doctor?s surgery can involve years of clinical trials on a select group of patients."

Note medicine not vaccine. They didn't give you the facts of the normal process of vaccine because that wouldn't look as impressive. That is being deliberately misleading.

"Regulators at the European Medicines Agency (EMEA) said the fast-tracked procedure has involved clinical trials of a ?mock-up? vaccine similar to the one that will be used for the biggest mass vaccination programme in generations."

Yes, this is true, but "mock-up" implies fake. I'm not sure of all the facts on this but from what I've read, they have made the vaccine with genuine strains of potential pandemic flu viruses and done trials with it already. They haven't used the specific pandemic strain, because at that time there was no pandemic.

"A mass vaccination campaign against swine flu in America was halted in the 1970s after some people suffered Guillain-Barré syndrome, a disorder of the nervous system."

Note they don't give figures - far easier to create hysteria if you don't actually give solid facts. As per the previous analysis article the figures were 8 in 1,000,000 and given that 1 in 100,000 get GBS normally anyway it was very hard to tell which were due to the vaccine and who would have got GBS anyway. A lot of the cases were picked up because of new surveillance protocols set up at the time.

This is why I rely on the mainstream media less and less for science and medical reporting.

[pagwatch]

I do find it interesting that all the major news broadcasts covering this use the phrase 'will be given..' or 'are to be given...' or 'will be vaccinated'.
The language always implies that there is no alternative. No one is reporting that the population 'will be offered..' or that the vaccination 'will be available...'

[RubberDuck]

Additional note: "mock-up" vaccines are usually referred to as "pre-pandemic" vaccines. So another word they've used to make it seem more frightening than it actually is.

GSK's pre-pandemic vaccine info back in 2008