Apple Tax (serious)

[PigletJohn]

Rather unusually, FT have a free public article here

I will confess that my starting position is that tax should not be optional, and it is not right that the rich and powerful should be able to manipulate the world to avoid it.

In the last couple of days an alternative lobby sprang up in the US which looks to me like they are saying it's not fair foreigners should make American owned companies pay tax.

[FarAwayHills]

The low corporation tax rate has always been in the sights of the EU - it was a bargaining chip during the bailout when we had to go cap in hand to our masters. If the EU want to talk about fairness and paying your share across the board - let's talk about the fact that Ireland has shouldered the majority of EU banking debt and the impact this has had on every family in the country. We are kidding ourselves if we think a penny of the money they want recouped from Apple would go anywhere near the Irish people.

[Radyward]

Jean claude junker et al. Need to get out of our faces here in the ROI. It's an attempt to challenge our corporation tax rate. In an attempt to get the NICE treaty round 2 through they said ireland could keep it. They are just stirring to great effect.
Iteland has poor infrastructure , no housing for new migrants so to attract business it's a major deal. Harmonisation of tax !!! Look where harmonisation of people has got us

[Chippednailvarnishing]

Iteland has poor infrastructure , no housing for new migrants so to attract business it's a major deal

Maybe they need to up their tax revenue...

[Amalfimamma]

Maybe they need to up their tax revenue

Then we'd have poor infrastructure, no housing for new migrants and no jobs.

[VeryPunny]

I don't understand why Apple are getting the heat from th EU here. They negotiated in good faith with Ireland, paid monies due in Ireland and now the EU want to overturn what was a lawful arrangement. The EU's beef is with Ireland, surely?

And what's the difference between Ireland's "state aid" to Apple et al, and the EU's CAP subsidies, the main beneficiaries being (e.g.) Danone, Tate & Lyle etc?

[PigletJohn]

Got to start somewhere.

[PigletJohn]

Hills "We are kidding ourselves if we think a penny of the money they want recouped from Apple would go anywhere near the Irish people."

Do you mean that the taxpayer (the Irish people) was expecting never to repay the loans?

[Amalfimamma]

Got to start somewhere.

They could start by not interfering in sovereign affairs and business transactions.
They could start by sorting out the PIGS
They could start by investigating italian banks and their illegal lending practises which have caused thousands of suicides since 2010
They could start by investigating Mario draghi and his dubious business practices


Loads of places they could start instead of being undemocratic

[PigletJohn]

I don't approve of billionaire multinationals avoiding tax by using complex offshore tax havens, when I and everyone else in my country does have to pay tax (plus a bit extra to make up for what they avoid).

I take it you do.

[Amalfimamma]

PigletJohn

Actually I don't approve of tax evasion.

It's a good job apple didn't evade taxes but is actually the highest payer of taxes in Ireland.

I'm with O'leary on this one. The EU can go fuck themselves

[PigletJohn]

"I don't approve of billionaire multinationals avoiding tax by using complex offshore tax havens, when I and everyone else in my country does have to pay tax (plus a bit extra to make up for what they avoid).

I take it you do."

I see you don't answer my actual point.

[Amalfimamma]

PigletJohn

You made no pint to answer.

Except conferm once more that you don't believe in sovereignty and democracy.

[PigletJohn]

OK, try this.

Avoidance and Evasion of tax are two different things.

By syphoning off enormous profits from sales in other European countries, and avoider can avoid paying tax in those countries. By putting the money in a metaphorical sack and carrying it into Ireland, then out again, they can avoid paying tax on it anywhere.

The Double Irish wheeze is constructed purely to avoid paying tax. The fact that Ireland gets a slice off the Apple cake might be enough to satisfy you. Do you think it is enough to satisfy the rest of us? How do you think we would feel if half our businesses did it? Or all of them? How would you feel if your businesses did it to you?

[Amalfimamma]

PigletJohn

Avoidance and Evasion of tax are two different things.

You're right. It's a pity apple pays the taxes that it's asked them isn't It?

If the eu want to go after people who don't pay tax they should try politicians, their friends, bono vox.

[PigletJohn]

OK, you have a different perspective, so from your point of view, you like to make a profit out of being a tax haven to companies that loot the rest of Europe.

Fair enough.

You won't be surprised, though, that the other countries have a different perspective.

[Amalfimamma]

tax haven
I was wondering when that would be bandied about.
Here is a recent article really the Panama papers and the 10 most important tax havens.

Ireland is nowhere to be seen

europe.newsweek.com/panama-papers-top-ten-tax-havens-where-money-hidden-444512?rm=eu

[caroldecker]

Piglet The business owners cannot avoid tax indefinitely if they are a US company. It is taxed when repatriated.
Apple has a huge cashpile (somewhere near the Cayman Islands) but borrowed money in the US to pay dividends to avoid tax on repatriation.
To get it to the owners, they will have to pay US tax.
More tax delaying than tax avoidence.

[PigletJohn]

FT says that Apple plants to repatriate their cash pile of surplus profits next year.

Probably to prevent us dirty foreigners getting our hands on any of it.

They will presumably have to pay a chunk to US IR. Better that than to the Europeans.

[PigletJohn]

this one

//www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a63fa440-7023-11e6-9ac1-1055824ca907.html

7.Apple to repatriate overseas cash pile next year, says Cook

[caroldecker]

If they owe the tax in europe, they will pay it. The €13bn is going into an escrow account pending the appeal.

[PigletJohn]

Apple the first, but probably not the only.

"Amazon and Starbucks pay less tax in Austria than a local sausage stall, the country's Chancellor Christian Kern has said in a newspaper interview.

"Every Viennese café, every sausage stand pays more tax in Austria than a multinational corporation," Mr Kern told Der Standard.

"That goes for Starbucks, Amazon and other companies," he said.

He added that EU countries with low corporate taxes were undermining the structure of the union itself."


www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37259278