Why does the Labour Party not support Brexit?

[FlatulentStarfish]

Forgive me, I am not brilliantly knowledgeable about politics. But what I can't understand is why are the Labour Party not supporting Brexit? I always understood that Labour supported the British poor and working classes. Surely these are the very people who are being most hurt by remaining in the EU. One newspaper described the referendum as a battle between the Haves and the Have Nots. Why are Labour abandoning their people? The old Labour politicians such as Tony Benn were always anti EU.

The Labour party does not support Brexit because the workers and the poorest in society will be worse off should we leave. EU legislation has in the most part supported the rights of workers over those of large companies.

I think the EU is a bit like the royal family. Both of these could be very bad for ordinary people and the country but under our queen and current EU government both have been an asset. We are the fifth largest economy because of our access to our local EU market.

We will still require more and more immigration should we leave because large companies and the conservative government are failing to invest in education and training so that English people are not acquiring skills and english people are not wanting to work in health, caring and education because the conditions are deteriorating. This is to do with UK decisions not EU decisions.

The labour party also tends to support peace and tackling climate change (because again they benefit ordinary people). Both of these will be threatened with Brexit

I am trying to grasp why whether we leave the EU has to come down to political parties
It is not a right-wing (UKIP or Conservatives) or left-wing based choice (Labour and the rest) to my mind anyway. By voting to leave you will not get a UKIP/right wing government any more than you do now. Each person has a vote in the general election and can support their own political allegiance
It is about freedom of choice.

We will still require more and more immigration should we leave because large companies and the conservative government are failing to invest in education and training so that English people are not acquiring skills and english people are not wanting to work in health, caring and education because the conditions are deteriorating. This is to do with UK decisions not EU decisions.

Basically you are saying that because state education and apprenticeship structures are failing the working class, we need to import people from elsewhere to do the jobs our own under-educated plebs are too ignorant or entitled to do? Flood the country with imported labour and leave our own working class to fester on benefits, perhaps?

What about fixing the skills gap for UK workers, or challenging the race to the bottom in wages powered by a limitless supply of imported labour? And this is what passes for a left-wing view nowadays? No wonder Labour is in such a mess

I agree mollie123. There are supporters of both sides from both left and right.

I've seen a number of people saying "But you'll be stuck with the Tories if you vote leave!" which forgets that we have democratic general elections regularly and the Tories may well lose the next one. We can't vote out the EU, we can only go along with it or choose our own path.

OTheHugeManatee - stunning isn't it!? That the "traditional Labour base" has been hung out to dry, because rather than train Brits to do the job "we" would rather just import someone else. :(

winter - my thoughts exactly
and as for UKIP if we leave the EU - their raison d'etre has more or less disappeared
This is about the EU versus a bit of self-determination for the UK not party politics or right wing/left wing.

Very true mollie123

I've found lots of people like the fact that this referendum isn't the usual party political choice, it makes a very refreshing change. They're actually thinking for themselves and ignoring the propaganda.

Privately I think the Labour Party will live to regret supporting Remain rather than Leave. If they'd supported Leave they could have had a springboard to the next general election. As it is, they've done nothing apart from make it glaringly obvious they don't give a toss about the issues that concern their core voters.

Did anyone see the BBC news coverage of Georgis boy, Balls and Cable? The contrast between the slick establishment setting up a press conference in an aircraft hanger with a newly painted Paddy Air jet against ordinary people on the street saying they don't believe a word the politicians say?

Yes I noticed that too Professor!

I wonder whether the BBC were aiming to promote "remain" by giving them a polished look, compared to the ordinary people in the street. I think it will have backfired, as I'm sure a lot of us are suspicious of the shiny salesmen of the remain/establishment side.

Surely a balanced report would either include politicians from each side, or ordinary people from each side. I don't suppose we'll be seeing a BBC report with ordinary people in the street for "remain" contrasted with prominent politicians for "leave" any time soon.

That's because there is no grassroots campaign for Remain. It's their embarrassing secret. Remain is composed entirely of establishment figures with a vested interest, plus those members of the public who are sufficiently well-off or brainwashed to think voting with the establishment is in their economic interest.

Compare and contrast: the Leave campaign has SAHMs and grannies volunteering to deliver campaign leaflets. (I know this because I am helping to coordinate for my area.)

The Remain campaign just pays £9m to Royal Mail.

Which of these is the grassroots campaign?

Wow. What a load of codswallop. Labour in for Europe is very much a grassroots campaign - and involves LOTS of little people like me going out and delivering leaflets.

Unless there is a specific set of criteria you need to call yourself grassroots. Also if you assert that the only people who are supporting remain are brainwashed, the opposite can also be levelled - that those supporting leave are equally brainwashed.

You are rather showing your underskirts with those comments.

Because the principaled me Corbin is not so principled after all

He's not for staying in but recommends it just the same

At least Cameron has the courage of his conviction he's always believed he should stay in

I'm quite shocked at the number of people who think this is a vote between the Tories and the EU!

It's astonishing, isn't it?

' Also if you assert that the only people who are supporting remain are brainwashed, the opposite can also be levelled - that those supporting leave are equally brainwashed. '

I have had an open mind about this from the beginning. I gave them all a fair chance to make their case. But what I saw yesterday on TV has swung it for me.

If this is not robotic brainwashing then the Pope is not Catholic. What I saw on TV yesterday was frightening. It is obvious that someone has got to poor Osborne and done a job on him. If they are prepared to go to those lengths on poor Osborne, then what will they do to us? At least Boris is immune to their brainwashing tricks. He is so independent, freedom loving, logical and Brexit, that they can't do their work on him.

Claig

You really, really, really can't extrapolate ANYTHING from Osborne to humanity. That is like those studies that say "it worked on sheep in the labs of course it will work on humans".

"At least Boris is immune to their brainwashing tricks. He is so independent, freedom loving, logical and Brexit, that they can't do their work on him."

At least Boris is immune to their brainwashing tricks. He is such a privileged self-serving unprincipled dick, that they can't do their work on him.

Fixed it for you claigie

'You really, really, really can't extrapolate ANYTHING from Osborne to humanity. That is like those studies that say "it worked on sheep in the labs of course it will work on humans".'

Fair point.

Unexpoc,

Can I ask you a question?
Were your parents or grandparents involved in WW2?

Can I ask you a question?
Were your parents or grandparents involved in WW2?

Yes. My grandfather died in a concentration camp. He fell off a guard tower. WTF?

Go on, I will fulfil your desire to attempt socratic questioning to point us in a direction if you insist Professor.

Both my Grandfathers fought, one of whom was in 3 separate actions and had the long term PTSD and physical injuries to show for it. My grandmother was an auxiliary nurse who travelled around Britain treating soldiers from all of the free armies of Europe. My other nana was a bit too young, but lived in Hartlepool so regularly had the shit bombed out of her.

Why?

This is what Labour have done for the working class of this country:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10055613/Labour-sent-out-search-parties-for-immigrants-Lord-Mandelson-admits.html

They don't represent their traditional core voters any more. They are a disgrace since Blair came to be.

This is a dereliction of duty.

not sure why people are being asked about their grandparents' war record, bit sinister tbqh

I want to know what they've done with the real Jeremy Corbyn - is he bound and gagged in a cellar at Labour HQ?

Sadly not Limer. This is the real Corbyn, historically a Eurosceptic. His U-turn has seriously undermined his credibility as Labour leader. Shame on him.

Unexpoc
In answer to your question why? It is because I thought we fought in WW2 to avoid being governed by a tyranny. If we throw away our ability to govern ourselves and accept laws imposed on us by a foreign group.... then all our grandparents who fought suffered and died, died for nothing.