Mum-to-be with breech baby is shunning hospital for home water birth

[TheHerald]

A mum-to-be who has been advised to have a C-section because her baby is breech is instead raising £2,000 for a private delivery at home in a birthing pool. www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Plymouth-mum-determined-breech-baby-boy-home/story-25901543-detail/story.html

What a selfish woman. There is no benefit to her baby of a home water birth. Only to her. Like so many home birthers I have encountered.... Selfish, selfish, selfish. All about them and never about what's safest for the baby. And when from pure luck they get away with it and have a healthy baby and safe delivery they are so smug and vindicated.... Like me driving at 100mph down thd motorway with no seatbelt, not crashing and saying see? It's totally safe!

Statistically home born is safer for women who are full term with an uncomplicated pregnancy,...lots of research out there to back this up.

In this case however, the baby is breech and most midwives and doctors never come across vaginal breech births now. Most can only deliver with the aid of theory behind them and no actual experience. The exception I. Elusive is a midwife named Mary Cronk who is probably now retired. She was hugely experienced in breech births and home deliveries, however she had a very strict criteria she adhered to and Mum was transferred to hospital if labour deviated from the progress expected for a baby in a breech presentation.

As an ex community midwife I would also say that lots of women book home births for a first baby but many when faced with the reality of labour decide to go in. Equally many do not and I have helped many women birth their babies safely at home. I would never have felt qualified to assist with a breech presentation though, my only experience was with a woman who had a rapid labour at home, wasn't going to make the hospital and whose baby arrived bottom first with ease.

From my experience there will be lots of stuff going on behind the scenes, a sensible plan of action for labour that they will ask this Mum to think about and agree to. At the end of the day though it is down to her to make the ultimate decision. I am hoping if she stays at home that it all goes well for her.

Ah, she has booked Jane Evans who is very experienced in breech births. The hospital it seems want to support her but don't have anyone experienced in breech births.

It's worth reading research regarding breech delivery as there are lots of arguments regarding the safest way to deliver. Even the biggest study done in Canada which initially suggested caesarean was the safest way to deliver a breech presentation has now said the opposite and is saying babies born vaginally don't better. Lots to read.

Home birth with a very experienced midwife. Sounds ok to me - good for her. CS isn't without risks either.

cannottakeanotherday what a random point of view - I homebirthed because it was the best, safest thing for all of my family.

Dd2 was a footling breech. I have a bicornate uterus and it does raise the risk of abnormal presentation, preterm laboure, uterine rupture etc etc. I was setting up with a very experienced consultant for a controlled trial of labour at 36 weeks, which would have taken place in hospital with a theatre nearby should there be an issue, because I didn't give a fuck about photos and fairy lights, I wanted every type of support available for my baby immediately if an issue arise.

As it turned out she made a rush appearance by emcs at 32 weeks - I just made it to hospital in time, and told them immediately I needed a section as I was not willing to risk hip damage to her from an inexperienced team.

So I reserve my right, having been in similar circumstances, to say this woman is a muppet. Rattle on all you like about bodily autonomy; in this set of circumstances the chance which is best for both mother and baby to have least damage is to have at minimum access to all medical facilities. I researched it very thoroughly at the time as I really really did no want a c section but I determined the circumstances where it would be best and that's what happened.

Couldn't agree more RJ. I was determined to water vbac and pushed and researched til I got the head of obstetrics to support my wishes, a week later I met her again as she was paged to deliver my dd who was now coming three months early and breech. I asked her and the mw if they would deliver naturally or cs and followed their unanimous view that they would operate. Easiest decision of my life, my ego vanished entirely, my choice was entirely about her. And I agree so much with the mw below. We've all heard so many tales of I home birthed against all medical advice and it went fine, three cheers for female intuition overcoming the health nazis! V few women come back willing to share awful tales like the Telegraph link...

PinkFondantFancy:"Home birth with a very experienced midwife. Sounds ok to me - good for her. CS isn't without risks either."

Indeed. The decision about where to have a baby isn't black-and-white. And Nice recommends home as the safest place to give birth for low-risk pregnancies after the first - because that's what the evidence shows.

I also think there is something deeply unpleasant and psychologically unhinged about people who describe women who want to give birth at home as "selfish" - as if women should have no say at all about what happens to them or their bodies during childbirth. I know plenty of women who have given birth at home, and not a single one of them was selfish. Each and every one of them wanted to do what was best for them and their baby.

A friend of mine had her first baby in hospital. It died shortly after birth as a consequence of the ventouse delivery. She delivered her next two babies at home. I would love to see cannottakeanotherdayofthis look my friend in the eye and tell her she was selfish.

If, in this case, which is what the thread is about, not generalisms, the mother does have a bicornate uterus and the baby is breech, is it NOT a low risk pregnancy and I wouldn't actually call her selfish, as she's putting herself at a lot of risk too, but I get what people mean.

I was a home breech birth.

Calm yourselves down, people!

I was an unassisted home birth at 28 weeks. Still wouldn't recommend it though.

I think the mum-to-be makes some good points and I think she researched what is best for her and her baby.....but raising money for this is a bit off...I might think it best for my DC to go to an independent school but if I can't afford it I just have to take what's on offer by the state.

How is she going to raise the money? It's not the kind of thing that strangers will part with their money over. I know I wouldn't.

I Googled her and there was another story saying she raised the money. Also has a Twitter account.

mobile.twitter.com/naturalbreech

I do hope her baby comes safely. Does anyone know about hypno birthing? She's linking from twitter to someone who thinks they turned their baby from breech using a hypno birthing track? It's not something I know about.

yes I have heard hypnobirthing can work but no guarantees. the spinning babies website is useful when considering turning a baby as there are also other natural tecniques.

I think the point is that on the NHS these days it is very unlikely you will find a skilled MW team with the experience to deliver a breach baby vaginally. Therefore if you really want to try to deliver vaginally then you have to go private. Of course once you are in labour things may not progress as desired and the MW may make the call to go into the hospital. It is not in the MW's interests for things to go wrong on her watch. In any case from what I have read the signs that things are not going well are rarely sudden so, assuming a hospital is fairly nearby, there should still be time to go in and have an emergency C section if need be but at least this woman might get a a good chance to deliver vaginally.

She has a bicornuate uterus - with a septum down the middle.

I do too. My dd - my first baby - was breech throughout my entire gp and I only felt movement on one side of my body. I said when I was pg that it felt like there was a door down the middle of my uterus.

I had a cs and dd had the cord wrapped three times round her neck - she could not turn from breech position. She could not have moved at all. She would have died if I had not had a cs with her. So for that reason alone the woman is being U.

Yes, it is her wish to have a home birth but if you'd had seven previous MCs, would 't you want to make sure this baby was born healthy? And she knows she has a bicornuate uterus! I didn't till after my CS. I think she is being reckless.

She's making an educated decision.

Mindfulbear, the danger of a home breech birth with a bicornate uterus is precisely that when things go wrong they do so suddenly and in a time critical fashion. Namely the baby's body can be born when the cervix hasn't yet dilated enough to allow the head to be born leaving the child basically asphyxiating with its body out but head trapped right at the v end of labour and if you risk yanking the baby out you could break its neck, or because the body doesn't fully fill the birth canal the cord can get wrapped around the body during descent and squashed - basically a cord prolapse. Both instances take just a few minutes to profoundly alter or even end a child's life.

You can deliver breech babies vaginally.

It's her choice.

The law thankfully gives her rights over her body.

It is very important that we do not allow the law to change to restrict women's choices whilst pregnant and in labour.

The nanny state is a huge burden on women.

Remember under English law you are allowed to endanger the life of the unborn child. You can drink and eat cheese whilst pregnant, cycle, bungee jump and do what you like. Your rights to all those things protect women hugely.

I live in Ireland and we have feck all choices in maternity care or indeed other bodily autonomy issues as I am sure everyone knows. I would not take the same decision because I was very happy to birth in a hospital but I understand others may feel differently.

We had a situation recently where a woman had to have a private 'home birth' in the UK, obviously she was not at home, because under the irish conditions for home birth no one can VBAC at home. Given that the fact that her first birth was in a public hospital with a c section rate of nearly 50% for first time mothers which barely raised an eyebrow with the people enforcing these ludacrious restrictions, I think I would prefer the bodily autonomy thank you very much.

I think a 50% CS rate is way too high but of course doctors hate risk and managers need beds so it is women and their families who lose out, especially if they do not "perform" within specified times. Out of my NCT Group of 8 50% had CS. 1 was elected. 1 was decided when she got to hospital because baby was a surprise breach and the other 2 were "emergency" after long protracted labours.

Given this woman's specific issues it would not surprise me at all if the independent MW does not convince her to either birth in, or very close to, a hospital. Personally I would not want the risk of birthing at home with this specific set of facts. However I applaud the fact that yes we do have control over our own bodies, for the most part anyway, in England. IT is not the same the world over and this is wrong and anti women.

MindfulBear
"Drs hate risk" when I was pregnant I hated risk too. I didn't want a brain-damaged or stillborn baby - both more likely with VB than ELCS.

"I think a 50% CS rate is way too high". Too high for what? Why does it matter?

Midwife was very supportive when I broached viginal delivery of breach (at that time) DS2.
He turned, and we ended up as a suprise home birth.
I would be asking why the NHS aren't supportive of viginal breach births, and if other medical issues exist, support the CS, but breach on its own shouldn't prevent a viginal birth.

there are also risks with cs.....

'Easiest decision of my life, my ego vanished entirely, my choice was entirely about her.'

I know of no homebirthing mother who let her ego dictate her choices at the expense of the safety of her baby. I expect there may be the odd case linked to mental health issues perhaps but I would imagine it is VERY rare.

Medical advice was to not homebirth with my 3rd on the basis that I had had a pph with first. Given that birth mismanagement was the cause of the pph, I chose not to put myself and my baby at risk of that again.