The scandal of the state of private renting in the UK

[cruikshank]

Housing benefit going to private landlords costs the country £9.3 bn a year, yet 1 in 3 private rentals are substandard. Is this a natural consequence of turning over responsibility for the provision of shelter to a largely unregulated private market?

Article here: www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/back-to-rising-damp-one-million-rented-homes-in-private-sector-are-substandard-9039201.html

Greengrow, did you read any of the responses? Tbh it is a pretty uneducated statement in any case. You wouldn't be happy if hb were suddenly disposed of. The knock on effects would be far reaching and long lasting. There would be very few people not affected by it in some way. However you are doing your government proud, just as they want, you are pinning the problems on the people priced into a no win situation rather than those who created that situation

It would help if local councils repossessed all the thousands of empty boarded up houses.
There are several on most old streets. I know they can take them after a certain time but they still stand empty.
What housing shortage?

Greengrow, the vast majority of the HB bill hoovered up by the private sector is going to landlords in London. And as Ehric says, the only reason that you and your daughter are able to live off your tenants' hard graft in the way you do is because of HB - without it, rental rates would fall and you would no longer be able to charge as much as you do - they are only being inflated now by state money. I would also be very very surprised, given the amount of tenants that claim HB in London, if none of it had ever made it your way. You would not necessarily know about it if someone wasn't on the dole - my own landlord certainly doesn't know that I'm claiming a top-up.

Cruik

I was under the impression that you had to tell your ll if you were receiving hb, because some btl mortgages don't allow this?
I'm probably wrong though.
Everyone I know who is renting has some amount of hb

[shrugs] you probably should, but then the landlords providing the housing also aren't doing things they probably should if 1 in 3 private rented properties are substandard, so I think a tenant not disclosing is not such a big deal compared to that, as it goes.

nobody would volunteer the fact that they claim LHA and risk having their tenancy ended and nowhere else to go, or having to pay ££££ to move, uproot their kids etc etc.
If/when we all move to universal credit this will have to change anyway since even more private renters get some form of child related benefit like CTC even if they don't get LHA. Since it won't be any of the landlord's business what you receive UC for they won't be able to exclude claimants.

Wow Greengrow you're just overflowing with empathy aren't you?

"People need to stand on their own two feet." Do you seriously think that people actually want to rely on the state? Or that people on HB relish going through the bureaucratic nightmare every time their wages change? What people need is the ability to stand on their own two feet but when you are trapped between high childcare costs and appallingly low wages then you don't have much choice.

I'm happy for you and your DD that you're all ok Jack but you do realise that as private landlords you benefit from the HB top ups even if you don't accept HB yourselves.

Someone needs to go see the Wizard methinks ...

"

We all have different views. My daughters tenants in London are two mobile young doctors who are not ready to buy yet. I am 100% sure when I let I never had anyone getting any housing benefit. I don't currently let. it's nice to be free of the hassle and neither my daughter nor I has ever made a profit on the lettings by the way. Tenants seem to think rents are higher than costs for landlords! They rare are. in fact I even sold our two flats for 50% less than I paid for them - it is not a gravy train for landlords by any means.

You may not make a profit month to month but you benefit from the tenants creating equity in your property.
Unless you sell for 50% less than you paid which is a very strange thing to do.

What hassle Greengrow? I know it used to be a headache for landlords but these days they aren't involved at all. If it's a simple top up then there shouldn't even be a delay?

I know dozens of families privately renting. Most have had some issues with repairs not being carried out, damp and other issues but daren't cause too much of a fuss for fear of the section 21 and the nightmare and huge expense of securing another home. Of those families only one doesn't get any housing benefit at all, the rest get some to top up wages without the landlord's knowledge. One of my friends made the mistake of calling her landlady to tell her she would be claiming a housing benefit top up when she started maternity leave as her husband's wages and her smp wouldn't cover the enormous amount they were paying out every month on rent, cue an eviction notice being issued and my poor friend losing sleep and having to deal with the hassle of finding somewhere else to live and moving at 9 months pregnant. They had been the perfect tenants for the 2 years they had been there but that didn't matter once they revealed that they would be getting housing benefit. The one place they found that accepted housing benefit was an ex council flat and the same landlord owned most of the flats in the block. The rent he charges is almost double what the council charged and now the council is paying him in housing benefit! The whole system is shambolic.

Oh Greengrow it's you

A £10k not £26k benefits cap would be a good start.

You do realise people would quite literally starve?

I would abolish all housing benefit and make people live with relatives. That would solve it at a stroke.

What about people who don't have relatives? Some kind of matching agency?

Or is this self-parody? I've been scratching my head at your breath-taking remarks all morning, on nearly every thread I've clicked. Am I missing the joke?

I think local council's need to buy up the empty housing stock (compulsory purchase), make them fit for people to live in and rent them out. They will get their money back in 5 years or so.

Rents are too high and there's a lot of landlords who do naff all. My last house needed repairs and in the 9 years I was there they only did the basics. I paid my own rent for most of the time I was there (8.5 years) and it made no difference. There needs to be legislation for minimum standards for all properties - electricity, mould free, repairs done in a timely manner.

Cheers Greengrow assuming you are for real (what a horrific thought), you DO realise that many benefit claimants are disabled or sick don't you?

But yeah....let's cap benefits at £10!

That would affect those sick and or disabled, those caring for people sick or disabled (me two years ago) and the millions of low paid workers who clean your hospitals, collect your rubbish etc.

But yeah other than that your insight into us scroungers is wonderful.

Just bring back the workhouses and stick the poor, sick and disabled in there. Make them earn their keep by doing the crap jobs that no one else wants to do A cap on benefits this low will result in people unable to pay their bills and feed their families.

I just think it is important people know the views of people who are not like them. Of course you can disagree with my views. It's a free country.

Yes, I am afraid we have had a good few property crashes over the years and I am the landlord who sold two flats for 50% less than we paid for them. I.e. the capital value was halved! So don't assume all llandlords make a mint or make even one penny

As for the hassle it's constant. My daughter as already in a year had to spend £2k on a new boiler, deal with leaks from the flat above, all kinds of things. Now that will be fine if it means ultimately she will be able to lvie int he property she owns rather than get priced out of the London market (and that is her plan) but it'sa risk - she loses money month by month and if the value of the property goes down she has lost out big time. Incidentally when she bought in 2012 her sellers who owned it for 4 years or so they got almost the same as they paid for it in 2008 - i.e. it did not go up one penny in London in that period. So don't assume landlords make either income or capital gains although anyone keeping a property for 20 years is likely to have some gains which may be higher than inflation although 28% of those gains are confiscated by the state in capital gains tax .

I apologise, i thought you meant the hassle of hb rather than the hassle of renting. Yes renting is a massive hassle and a risk. Property is a seriously long term investment. There was a time when you could buy a street of miners cottages or similar for peanuts and rent them out and clear some serious profit. It's not like that any more. Some landlords still do very well but they tend to be the ones who don't part with a penny and whose properties end up in the shambolic state cited in the article. As i said above, the people who do things properly usually end up losing out. The people who don't care still won't care no matter how much regulation you throw about.

Unfortunately property rental works best in three situations. 1, you can afford to buy the property outright and use rent as income with a view to selling much later for a capital profit. 2, you use rental income to help keep a property you intend to live in later and you can afford to subsidise the costs to make that happen. 3, you inherit a property, blah blah, same as 1.

The thing is it's all the same, it all boils down to a problem with the housing market and the wages paid to the majority of workers. That's what needs fixing regardless of which direction you come to the problem.

I just think it is important people know the views of people who are not like them. Of course you can disagree with my views. It's a free country.

I wasn't asking for permission to disagree. I asked whether you realised that a £10k benefits cap would inevitably lead to people starving.

Or the abolition of HB you propose, for that matter.

How do you think care workers and refuse collectors afford their London rent?

as someone pointed out, great thread - ferocious bile can be directed at benefits claimants and landlords.

I would like to see the source of the statistic for the original report. Probably as sound as the other one about a vast majority of people struggling to afford everyday life which is still sitting on top of a topic here.

BTW my rental is fully insulated, has a new boiler, is in excellent repair, has a smart kitchen and a modern bathroom, and rents at the going rate for the area which means a gross return of about 4.5%. That is GROSS before expenses, insurances, maintenance etc etc. In my town properties only get tenanted if they are decent. As it should be. BTW the place is good to live in, has work etc etc.

I would take a tenant on HB - my insurers do allow it. But I remind those on here who are lying to their landlords not to whine too much when what goes around comes around.

and I am the landlord who sold two flats for 50% less than we paid for them. I.e. the capital value was halved!

Good.

That's a bit harsh, cruik. Not all landlords are bad ones, and not all find themselves renting in an attempt to make a quick buck. What do you do if your house goes into negative equity and you need to move? Do you sell it at a huge loss, or do you rent it out? I'm renting. A new boiler was put in before I moved in and the washing machine was replaced.

Property going down in value as it does over particularly periods and always has in the UK (too many people think it's a one way bet) is a risk you take. We need to sell both flats to buy our own house when we sold our last one. It is a big relief to be spared the hassle of having to deal with tenants, leaks in pipes, the HMRC tax things, accounts, repairs and all the other admin. The most most landlords make is something like 5% on the capital value of the flat a year for income gains which are then taxed for many at 40% and then if one thing goes wrong (the boiler last year £2k) or you have a month empty or have agents to pay £2k to (£1k on my daughter's recent renewal) then all your profit if any for the year may have gone.

Must admit that I made a loss when I sold a flat which I had rented out. It wS my home for a good while, then I needed to I've and couldn't sell,p. rented it out to sow one who paid my two months rent and then never paid again. Eventually left having ruined the carpet (had a puppy there without my knowledge), lost all carpets and then sold finally at a loss.

So I know this reality and it's hard.

Despite this I do not wish a benefits cap of £10k on anyone. That is just horrible.